The John Batchelor Show

SEGMENT 4: MARS AVALANCHE AND SPACE EXPLORATION Guest: Bob Zimmerman Zimmerman examines stunning imagery of a Martian avalanche captured by orbiting spacecraft. Discussion explores what these geological events reveal about Mars surface dynamics, ongoing robotic exploration missions, scientific discoveries from current probes, and how such observations inform planning for eventual human missions to the red planet. 1955

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 3: SPACE ENGINEERING AND BOOSTER TECHNOLOGY Guest: Bob Zimmerman Zimmerman discusses latest developments in space engineering, focusing on booster rocket technology and satellite deployment advances. Discussion covers SpaceX achievements, competing launch providers, the evolution of reusable rocket systems, and how private industry continues pushing boundaries in making space access more frequent and affordable. 1953

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 2: PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS IN EGYPT Guest: Mariam Wahba Wahba reports on the ongoing persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, detailing discrimination, violence, and legal challenges facing the ancient community. Discussion covers recent incidents, government responses, the struggle for religious freedom, and what international pressure might do to improve conditions for Egypt's vulnerable Christian minority. 1915 CAIRO

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 1: RUSSIA'S FAILING ECONOMY Guest: Michael Bernstam Bernstam analyzes the deteriorating state of Russia's economy under the weight of sanctions and war expenditures. Discussion examines inflation, labor shortages, industrial decline, and how long the Kremlin can sustain its military campaign in Ukraine as economic pressures mount and Western restrictions continue to squeeze Russian financial resources. 1918

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

GUEST: Charles Burton. SUMMARY: Burton analyzes Prime Minister Mark Carney's ambitious goal to double Canada's non-US trade within a decade to offset American trade difficulties. He argues this pivot to China is unlikely to succeed, noting that Canada's current trade with China is less than 5%, compared to roughly 67% with the United States. 1910 OTTAWA

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

GUEST: Jim Fanell. SUMMARY: Fanell criticizes the UK's plan to transfer the Chagos Islands to Mauritius due to Chinese influence concerns. He highlights the strategic necessity of the Diego Garcia base for US bombers and carriers, noting that President Trump's opposition to the deal is bolstering critics within the UK government. 1901

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

GUEST: Rebecca Grant. SUMMARY: Grant discusses the Navy's pursuit of new stealth fighter aircraft with 25% greater range. She explains that this extended range is crucial for survival, allowing carriers to operate further away and evade Chinese missile targeting while maintaining the ability to launch offensive strikes against ships and bases. 1942 ENTERPRISE

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

GUEST: Arthur Herman. SUMMARY: Herman dismisses Canadian media narratives regarding a US invasion as "inflated flights of fancy" and absurdities. He critiques the hysteria surrounding Greenland and argues that Prime Minister Carney's hope of becoming a strategic partner with China is a "fantasy" that ignores geopolitical reality. 1910 GREENLAND

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

GUEST: Cleo Paskal. SUMMARY: Paskal reports from a defense forum where Palau's President Surangel Whipps Jr.detailed Chinese political warfare against his strategic nation. Whipps described destabilization tactics including illegal fishing, cyber attacks, and scam centers, emphasizing the urgent need for international assistance to combat corruption and Chinese transnational crime. 1900

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

GUEST: Bob Zimmerman. SUMMARY: Zimmerman discusses a private initiative by Black Moon Energy to mine helium-3 on the moon for fusion fuel. He notes they have signed a deal with JPL to send a mapping rover, a venture made possible only because launch costs have dropped significantly enough to make space mining conceivable. 1932

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SHOW SCHEDULE 1-20-2025 1907 GREENLAND SEGMENT 1: RETAIL SALES AND ECONOMIC OUTLOOK Guest: Liz Peek Strong retail sales signal consumer confidence as Trump takes office. Peek discusses holiday spending numbers, the stock market's performance, and economic expectations for the new administration. Conversation touches on inflation pressures, interest rate concerns, and whether the economy's momentum can continue under new policy directions.SEGMENT 2: MARKETS AND GREENLAND CONTROVERSY Guest: Liz Peek Peek analyzes market reactions to the incoming administration and addresses Trump's renewed interest in acquiring Greenland. Discussion covers the strategic importance of Greenland's resources and location, European responses to the proposal, and how this diplomatic imbroglio fits into broader economic and geopolitical considerations facing the new term.SEGMENT 3: EUROPEAN FRUSTRATION WITH TRUMP'S RETURN Guest: Judy Dempsey (Carnegie Berlin), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Dempsey assesses European anxiety as Trump begins his second term. Discussion covers EU economic stagnation, Germany's struggling industrial base, and widespread frustration among European leaders unprepared for renewed American pressure on trade, defense spending, and NATO commitments. McCotter joins from Detroit offering domestic political perspective.SEGMENT 4: EU ECONOMY AND TRANSATLANTIC TENSIONS Guest: Judy Dempsey (Carnegie Berlin), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Continued analysis of Europe's economic malaise and political uncertainty ahead of German elections. Dempsey examines how EU leadership plans to navigate Trump's transactional approach to alliances, concerns over tariffs and energy policy, and whether Europe can muster unified responses to American demands on defense and trade.SEGMENT 5: POWELL VS. TRUMP ON MONETARY POLICY Guest: Joseph Sternberg (London) Sternberg analyzes the brewing conflict between Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell and President Trump over interest rate policy. Discussion examines Trump's public criticism of Powell, the Fed's independence, inflation concerns, and how this tension between the White House and central bank could shape economic policy and market confidence.SEGMENT 6: STARMER'S LEADERSHIP FAILURES AND CHINA EMBASSY CONCERNS Guest: Joseph Sternberg (London) Sternberg critiques Prime Minister Keir Starmer's struggling leadership and lack of clear direction for Britain. Discussion turns to Starmer's belated scrutiny of China's massive new London embassy complex, raising security concerns about the sprawling diplomatic compound and questions about why earlier governments permitted its construction without adequate review.SEGMENT 7: IRAN EXECUTIONS AND TRUMP'S PROMISE OF HELP Guest: Jonathan Schanzer (Washington, DC) Schanzer reports on the surge of executions inside Iran as the regime cracks down on dissent. Discussion covers Trump's remarks signaling support for the Iranian people, the brutal nature of the regime's repression, recent execution numbers, and whether American policy shifts could aid those suffering under Tehran's authoritarian rule.SEGMENT 8: GAZA CEASEFIRE AND POSTWAR GOVERNANCE Guest: Jonathan Schanzer (Washington, DC) Schanzer examines the fragile Gaza ceasefire and critical questions about who will govern after the fighting ends. Discussion analyzes the proposed makeup of any postwar governing board, the challenges of reconstruction, Hamas's continued presence, and regional players jockeying for influence over Gaza's future political arrangements.SEGMENT 9: GREENLAND STRATEGY AND ARCTIC AMBITIONS Guest: Mary Kissel (Former Senior Adviser to Secretary Pompeo) Kissel offers insider perspective on Trump's renewed push for Greenland, drawing on her State Department experience. Discussion examines the strategic rationale behind the proposal, Arctic security concerns, Danish and European reactions, and whether this represents serious policy or negotiating leverage for broader geopolitical objectives.SEGMENT 10: GAZA DIPLOMACY AND INVITATIONS TO ADVERSARIES Guest: Mary Kissel Kissel analyzes the peculiar diplomatic landscape surrounding Gaza negotiations, including controversial outreach to bad actors like Putin. Discussion questions the wisdom of engaging hostile powers in Middle East peacemaking, the signals this sends to allies, and how the new administration might reshape these diplomatic approaches going forward.SEGMENT 11: JAPAN'S SNAP ELECTION UNDER PM TAKAICHI Guest: Lance Gatling (Tokyo), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Gatling reports from Tokyo on Prime Minister Takaichi's decision to call snap elections. Discussion covers the political calculations behind this move, Takaichi's nationalist stance, implications for US-Japan relations under the new Trump administration, and how Japanese voters are responding to shifting domestic and regional dynamics.SEGMENT 12: CHINA'S GROWING THREAT TO JAPAN Guest: Lance Gatling (Tokyo), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Gatling assesses the mounting Chinese military threat facing Japan, including naval provocations and airspace incursions. Discussion examines Japan's defense posture, increased military spending, the importance of the US-Japan alliance in deterring Beijing, and how Tokyo views the security landscape with Trump returning to the White House.SEGMENT 13: NATO'S DECLINE AND THE GREENLAND CRISIS Guest: Gregory Copley Copley argues the Greenland controversy reveals deeper fractures signaling NATO's erosion. Discussion examines how the alliance has weakened through neglect and diverging interests, European defensiveness over Arctic claims, and whether the transatlantic security architecture built after World War II can survive current political and strategic pressures.SEGMENT 14: EMERGING SUNNI OR ISLAMIC NATO IN ASIA Guest: Gregory Copley Copley explores the potential formation of a new security alliance among Sunni Muslim nations in Asia. Discussion covers the strategic drivers behind such a coalition, which countries might participate, how this Islamic NATO could reshape regional power dynamics, and implications for Western alliances and Middle Eastern stability.SEGMENT 15: GREAT POWERS VERSUS SMALL STATES IN STRATEGIC THINKING Guest: Gregory Copley Copley contrasts how great powers often act impulsively while smaller states analyze carefully before moving. Discussion examines the hubris of major nations shooting from the hip on foreign policy, the advantages smaller countries gain through meticulous strategic calculation, and lessons for American policymakers in an increasingly complex world.SEGMENT 16: THE CALMING POWER OF KINGSHIP Guest: Gregory Copley Copley offers praise for monarchical systems as stabilizing forces in nations facing discontent. Discussion examines how kingship provides continuity, national unity, and legitimacy that elected leaders often cannot muster, with examples of how constitutional monarchies successfully navigate political turbulence and maintain social cohesion during crises.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 16: THE CALMING POWER OF KINGSHIP Guest: Gregory Copley Copley offers praise for monarchical systems as stabilizing forces in nations facing discontent. Discussion examines how kingship provides continuity, national unity, and legitimacy that elected leaders often cannot muster, with examples of how constitutional monarchies successfully navigate political turbulence and maintain social cohesion during crises.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 15: GREAT POWERS VERSUS SMALL STATES IN STRATEGIC THINKING Guest: Gregory Copley Copley contrasts how great powers often act impulsively while smaller states analyze carefully before moving. Discussion examines the hubris of major nations shooting from the hip on foreign policy, the advantages smaller countries gain through meticulous strategic calculation, and lessons for American policymakers in an increasingly complex world.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 14: EMERGING SUNNI OR ISLAMIC NATO IN ASIA Guest: Gregory Copley Copley explores the potential formation of a new security alliance among Sunni Muslim nations in Asia. Discussion covers the strategic drivers behind such a coalition, which countries might participate, how this Islamic NATO could reshape regional power dynamics, and implications for Western alliances and Middle Eastern stability.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 13: NATO'S DECLINE AND THE GREENLAND CRISIS Guest: Gregory Copley Copley argues the Greenland controversy reveals deeper fractures signaling NATO's erosion. Discussion examines how the alliance has weakened through neglect and diverging interests, European defensiveness over Arctic claims, and whether the transatlantic security architecture built after World War II can survive current political and strategic pressures.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 12: CHINA'S GROWING THREAT TO JAPAN Guest: Lance Gatling (Tokyo), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Gatling assesses the mounting Chinese military threat facing Japan, including naval provocations and airspace incursions. Discussion examines Japan's defense posture, increased military spending, the importance of the US-Japan alliance in deterring Beijing, and how Tokyo views the security landscape with Trump returning to the White House.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 11: JAPAN'S SNAP ELECTION UNDER PM TAKAICHI Guest: Lance Gatling (Tokyo), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Gatling reports from Tokyo on Prime Minister Takaichi's decision to call snap elections. Discussion covers the political calculations behind this move, Takaichi's nationalist stance, implications for US-Japan relations under the new Trump administration, and how Japanese voters are responding to shifting domestic and regional dynamics. VV

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 10: GAZA DIPLOMACY AND INVITATIONS TO ADVERSARIES Guest: Mary Kissel Kissel analyzes the peculiar diplomatic landscape surrounding Gaza negotiations, including controversial outreach to bad actors like Putin. Discussion questions the wisdom of engaging hostile powers in Middle East peacemaking, the signals this sends to allies, and how the new administration might reshape these diplomatic approaches going forward.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 9: GREENLAND STRATEGY AND ARCTIC AMBITIONS Guest: Mary Kissel (Former Senior Adviser to Secretary Pompeo) Kissel offers insider perspective on Trump's renewed push for Greenland, drawing on her State Department experience. Discussion examines the strategic rationale behind the proposal, Arctic security concerns, Danish and European reactions, and whether this represents serious policy or negotiating leverage for broader geopolitical objectives.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 8: GAZA CEASEFIRE AND POSTWAR GOVERNANCE Guest: Jonathan Schanzer (Washington, DC) Schanzer examines the fragile Gaza ceasefire and critical questions about who will govern after the fighting ends. Discussion analyzes the proposed makeup of any postwar governing board, the challenges of reconstruction, Hamas's continued presence, and regional players jockeying for influence over Gaza's future political arrangements.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 7: IRAN EXECUTIONS AND TRUMP'S PROMISE OF HELP Guest: Jonathan Schanzer (Washington, DC) Schanzer reports on the surge of executions inside Iran as the regime cracks down on dissent. Discussion covers Trump's remarks signaling support for the Iranian people, the brutal nature of the regime's repression, recent execution numbers, and whether American policy shifts could aid those suffering under Tehran's authoritarian rule.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 6: STARMER'S LEADERSHIP FAILURES AND CHINA EMBASSY CONCERNS Guest: Joseph Sternberg (London) Sternberg critiques Prime Minister Keir Starmer's struggling leadership and lack of clear direction for Britain. Discussion turns to Starmer's belated scrutiny of China's massive new London embassy complex, raising security concerns about the sprawling diplomatic compound and questions about why earlier governments permitted its construction without adequate review.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 5: POWELL VS. TRUMP ON MONETARY POLICY Guest: Joseph Sternberg (London) Sternberg analyzes the brewing conflict between Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell and President Trump over interest rate policy. Discussion examines Trump's public criticism of Powell, the Fed's independence, inflation concerns, and how this tension between the White House and central bank could shape economic policy and market confidence.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 4: EU ECONOMY AND TRANSATLANTIC TENSIONS Guest: Judy Dempsey (Carnegie Berlin), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Continued analysis of Europe's economic malaise and political uncertainty ahead of German elections. Dempsey examines how EU leadership plans to navigate Trump's transactional approach to alliances, concerns over tariffs and energy policy, and whether Europe can muster unified responses to American demands on defense and trade.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 3: EUROPEAN FRUSTRATION WITH TRUMP'S RETURN Guest: Judy Dempsey (Carnegie Berlin), Co-Host: Thaddeus McCotter Dempsey assesses European anxiety as Trump begins his second term. Discussion covers EU economic stagnation, Germany's struggling industrial base, and widespread frustration among European leaders unprepared for renewed American pressure on trade, defense spending, and NATO commitments. McCotter joins from Detroit offering domestic political perspective.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 2: MARKETS AND GREENLAND CONTROVERSY Guest: Liz Peek Peek analyzes market reactions to the incoming administration and addresses Trump's renewed interest in acquiring Greenland. Discussion covers the strategic importance of Greenland's resources and location, European responses to the proposal, and how this diplomatic imbroglio fits into broader economic and geopolitical considerations facing the new term.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

SEGMENT 1: RETAIL SALES AND ECONOMIC OUTLOOK Guest: Liz Peek Strong retail sales signal consumer confidence as Trump takes office. Peek discusses holiday spending numbers, the stock market's performance, and economic expectations for the new administration. Conversation touches on inflation pressures, interest rate concerns, and whether the economy's momentum can continue under new policy directions.

Transcribed - Published: 21 January 2026

PREVIEW FOR LATER TODAY Guest: Joseph Sternberg. Sternberg discusses the conflict between the White Houseand Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. While the President correctly argues that high interest rates make federal debt service costly, Sternberg contends that Powell previously compromised the Fed's independence by wading into fiscal policy debates during the 2020 pandemic. 1927 FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

PREVIEW FOR LATER TODAY Guest: Judy Dempsey. Dempsey contrasts Europe's expensive but secure power supply with the dire situation in Kyiv, where Russian bombing has destroyed heating and water infrastructure. While the EU struggles with disunity over gas supplies and U.S.-Greenland relations, Ukraine faces a freezing winter with schools closed and a state of emergency. 1920 ODESSA

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

PREVIEW FOR LATER TODAY Guest: Lance Gatling. Gatling analyzes the gamble taken by Takaichi Sanae, Japan's first female prime minister, in calling a snap election for February. Despite the ruling party's low polling due to scandals, she boasts a personal approval rating of over 75 percent and seeks a parliamentary mandate to enact long-term policy goals. 1931 MATSUYA DEPARTMENT STORE, TOKYO

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

PREVIEW FOR LATER TODAY Guest: Mary Kissel. Kissel describes the President's focus on Greenland as a political diversion from domestic inflation and foreign policy criticisms. However, she notes the move highlights a genuine security issue, citing a former ambassador's claim that Denmark failed to honor a $200 million defense commitment to the island. 1940 GREENLAND

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

PREVIEW FOR LATER TODAY Guest: Elizabeth Peek. Peek argues that the recent drop in gasoline prices to an average of $2.80 acts as a major tax cut for American consumers. She notes that unlike the anger caused by $5-a-gallon gas under previous leadership, the current retreat in oil prices is significantly benefiting the driving public. 1920 LANGLEY AERODROME WASHIGTON DC.

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

PREVIEW FOR LATER TODAY Guest: Gregory Copley. Copley explains that European states fear the United Stateswill dictate terms regarding Greenland, viewing this as a continuation of post-WWII history. He argues Washington has systematically subordinated allies by compromising their defense industries and autonomy, leaving them as dependent states liable to be "insulted at will." 1914 AUSTRALIA IN FRANCE

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

SHOW SCHEDULE 1-19-2026 1914 FLAG DAY WITH WILSON, BRYAN, ROOSEVELT Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine discusses President James Buchanan's January 4, 1861, national fast day, intended to unite a fracturing nation through prayer and repentance. While old-school Presbyterians like Charles Hodge supported this call for divine intervention, the effort largely failed to forestall war. The event highlighted three distinct groups of religious nationalists: conservative Unionists, anti-slavery Republicans viewing slavery as a national sin, and pro-slavery theologians defending the institution on scriptural grounds. Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine explains that President-elect Lincoln did not view Republicans as overly aggressive, positioning himself as a constitution-respecting centrist rather than a radical. Lincoln opposed slavery's expansion but acknowledged its constitutional protection where it already existed, believing the South was misled by elites and would eventually return to the Union. Ironically, Lincoln and Buchanan, though political opposites, worshiped at the same Washington church, sharing an old-school Presbyterian background. Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. In September 1861, Lincoln proclaimed a fast day, carefully avoiding specific references to slavery to maintain political unity. Carwardine details the conflict surrounding General Frémont's unauthorized emancipation order, which Lincoln revoked to prevent losing loyal border states like Kentucky. Consequently, anti-slavery nationalists used the pulpits to criticize Lincoln's caution, demanding the war become an explicit crusade against the "gigantic crime" of slavery rather than just a restoration of the Union. Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. The discussion turns to Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech," which explicitly defined racial inequality as the Confederacy's foundation, a stance widely condemned in the North. Carwardine notes that despite earlier tensions, Lincoln viewed his fast days as successful, utilizing them and meetings with religious delegations to gauge public sentiment and prepare the ground for eventual emancipation. Lincoln valued these interactions to influence and learn from denominational leaders. Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine details the intense political opposition Lincoln faced in 1863 following the Emancipation Proclamation. He highlights Clement Vallandigham, a "Peace Democrat" leader who viewed the war as unwinnable and Lincoln as a "Puritan despot." Carwardine explains that the Democraticcoalition was fractured by religion, specifically between Catholics and Protestants, yet united in opposing the administration. Lincoln ultimately banished Vallandigham to the Confederacy to neutralize his influence. Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine discusses James McMaster, the Catholic editor of the Freeman's Journal, characterizing him as an extraordinary polemicist who was imprisoned for his "vituperations" against the war. McMaster argued the war denied the rights of free men and refused to retract his views upon release. The segment also features Samuel "Sunset" Cox, a Democrat who famously attacked New England Puritanism as the source of the nation's meddling and moral extremity. Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. The discussion turns to the Union's "low point" in August 1864, where Lincoln expected to lose the election to Democrat George McClellan. Carwardine describes the Democraticcampaign as "brokenbacked" for pairing a general with a peace platform. However, the fall of Atlanta revived Union hopes. Carwardine emphasizes how pastors articulated a "higher cause"—the preservation of a unique republican government—to justify the war's terrible "bloodletting" and sacrifice. Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine analyzes the war's conclusion and Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, which framed the conflict as divine judgment for the shared offense of slavery. He notes that Lincoln intended a Reconstruction based on charity and "absence of malice," rather than punishment. By 1865, Lincoln's views had evolved to support citizenship for African American veterans, though his assassination left the specific blueprint for the nation's reintegration unfinished and uncertain. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. In 1925, the Tennessee legislature passed the Butler Act, banning the teaching of evolution in public schools. At Robinson's drugstore in Dayton, local booster George Rapier and others recruited 24-year-old science teacher John Scopes to violate the law as a test case to generate publicity for the town. Although Scopes was knowingly guilty, the ACLU backed the defense to challenge the law's constitutionality regarding the separation of church and state. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The ACLU, seeking to defend religious liberty and raise its profile, seized upon the Scopes case. While the board considered prestigious constitutional lawyers, the notorious Clarence Darrowvolunteered his services pro bono because he viewed the Butler Act as bigoted. Despite the ACLU's hesitation regarding Darrow's controversial reputation from the Leopold and Loeb trial, Scopes insisted on having the "street fighter" Darrow defend him against William Jennings Bryan. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Clarence Darrow was a celebrated attorney known for his "downhome" jury appeals and defense of the marginalized. Mentored by progressive John Altgeld, Darrow built a reputation defending labor unions, socialists like Eugene Debs, and the poor against powerful corporations. However, his career suffered a "bad patch" following the McNamara brothers' bombing case in Los Angeles, where Darrow himself faced trials for allegedly bribing a juror, leaving him with a checkered reputation. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Three-time presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan joined the prosecution to revive his political career and defend fundamentalism. Famous for his populist "Cross of Gold" speech, Bryan had become rigid in his views, advocating for prohibition and a literal reading of the Bible. He viewed the trial as a platform to combat the theory of evolution, which he believed deprived children of a moral center and denied the miracles of creation. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Fundamentalist Judge John T. Raulston presided over the trial, enjoying the publicity brought by loudspeakers and radio coverage. The defense included civil liberties lawyer Arthur Garfield Hayes, a secular Jew, serving as a constitutional anchor. Meanwhile, William Jennings Bryan arrived as a celebrity in a pith helmet, though Scopes noted Bryan ignored his own diabetes by overeating at dinner, revealing a disconnect between his fundamentalist beliefs and medical science. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The defense suffered a major setback when the judge ruled that their scientific experts could not testify before the jury, forcing them to read affidavits into the record instead. H.L. Mencken, the acerbic journalist who dubbed the event the "Monkey Trial," covered the proceedings. Sympathetic to Darrow and critical of Bryan's "fanatic" views, Mencken influenced public perception, though the jury remained shielded from the scientific evidence the defense hoped to present. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. During a stifling heatwave, the trial moved outdoors where Darrow executed a shocking maneuver by calling prosecutor William Jennings Bryan to the witness stand. Darrow interrogated Bryan on his literal interpretation of the Bible, questioning stories like Jonah and the whale. Bryan faltered, admitting creation "days" might be metaphorical periods, which undermined his fundamentalist position and allowed Darrow to humiliate him regarding his knowledge of history, geology, and world religions. Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The trial ended abruptly with a guilty verdict, denying Bryan his closing speech; he died days later, likely due to heat, stress, and diabetes. John Scopes eventually became a geologist and lived a reclusive life, refusing to exploit his fame. Darrow's later career fluctuated, including a controversial defense in the racially charged Massie trial in Hawaii, before his death in 1938, leaving behind a complex legacy beyond the "Inherit the Wind" narrative.

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The trial ended abruptly with a guilty verdict, denying Bryan his closing speech; he died days later, likely due to heat, stress, and diabetes. John Scopes eventually became a geologist and lived a reclusive life, refusing to exploit his fame. Darrow's later career fluctuated, including a controversial defense in the racially charged Massie trial in Hawaii, before his death in 1938, leaving behind a complex legacy beyond the "Inherit the Wind" narrative. 1925 BRYAN'S FUNERAL AT ARLINGTON

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. During a stifling heatwave, the trial moved outdoors where Darrow executed a shocking maneuver by calling prosecutor William Jennings Bryan to the witness stand. Darrow interrogated Bryan on his literal interpretation of the Bible, questioning stories like Jonah and the whale. Bryan faltered, admitting creation "days" might be metaphorical periods, which undermined his fundamentalist position and allowed Darrow to humiliate him regarding his knowledge of history, geology, and world religions. 1860 SPENCER TRACY AS CLARENCE DARROW, "INHERIT THE WIND."

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The defense suffered a major setback when the judge ruled that their scientific experts could not testify before the jury, forcing them to read affidavits into the record instead. H.L. Mencken, the acerbic journalist who dubbed the event the "Monkey Trial," covered the proceedings. Sympathetic to Darrow and critical of Bryan's"fanatic" views, Mencken influenced public perception, though the jury remained shielded from the scientific evidence the defense hoped to present. 1960 FREDERIC MARCH AS WILLIAM JENNINGS BRYAN "INHERIT THE WIND"

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Fundamentalist Judge John T. Raulston presided over the trial, enjoying the publicity brought by loudspeakers and radio coverage. The defense included civil liberties lawyer Arthur Garfield Hayes, a secular Jew, serving as a constitutional anchor. Meanwhile, William Jennings Bryan arrived as a celebrity in a pith helmet, though Scopes noted Bryan ignored his own diabetes by overeating at dinner, revealing a disconnect between his fundamentalist beliefs and medical science. 1925 SCOPES TRIAL CARTOON

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Three-time presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan joined the prosecution to revive his political career and defend fundamentalism. Famous for his populist "Cross of Gold" speech, Bryan had become rigid in his views, advocating for prohibition and a literal reading of the Bible. He viewed the trial as a platform to combat the theory of evolution, which he believed deprived children of a moral center and denied the miracles of creation. 1922 WILLIAM JENNINGS BRYAN

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The ACLU, seeking to defend religious liberty and raise its profile, seized upon the Scopescase. While the board considered prestigious constitutional lawyers, the notorious Clarence Darrow volunteered his services pro bono because he viewed the Butler Act as bigoted. Despite the ACLU's hesitation regarding Darrow'scontroversial reputation from the Leopold and Loeb trial, Scopes insisted on having the "street fighter" Darrow defend him against William Jennings Bryan. 1925 CLARENCE DARROW QUESTIONS WILLIAM JENNINGS BRYAN.

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. The ACLU, seeking to defend religious liberty and raise its profile, seized upon the Scopescase. While the board considered prestigious constitutional lawyers, the notorious Clarence Darrow volunteered his services pro bono because he viewed the Butler Act as bigoted. Despite the ACLU's hesitation regarding Darrow'scontroversial reputation from the Leopold and Loeb trial, Scopes insisted on having the "street fighter" Darrow defend him against William Jennings Bryan. 1925 CLARENCE DARROW WITH PRINCIPALS IN DEFENSE AT THE TABLE WHERE THE SCOPES TRIAL WAS DESIGNED

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. In 1925, the Tennessee legislature passed the Butler Act, banning the teaching of evolution in public schools. At Robinson's drugstore in Dayton, local booster George Rapier and others recruited 24-year-old science teacher John Scopes to violate the law as a test case to generate publicity for the town. Although Scopes was knowingly guilty, the ACLU backed the defense to challenge the law's constitutionality regarding the separation of church and state. 1925 SCOPES TRIAL, DAYTON, TENN

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine analyzes the war's conclusion and Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, which framed the conflict as divine judgment for the shared offense of slavery. He notes that Lincoln intended a Reconstruction based on charity and "absence of malice," rather than punishment. By 1865, Lincoln's views had evolved to support citizenship for African American veterans, though his assassination left the specific blueprint for the nation's reintegration unfinished and uncertain. 1910 BEECHER HOME, SOUTHBURY, CONN.

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. The discussion turns to the Union's "low point" in August 1864, where Lincolnexpected to lose the election to Democrat George McClellan. Carwardine describes the Democratic campaign as "brokenbacked" for pairing a general with a peace platform. However, the fall of Atlanta revived Union hopes. Carwardine emphasizes how pastors articulated a "higher cause"—the preservation of a unique republican government—to justify the war's terrible "bloodletting" and sacrifice. 1887 BEECHER COTTAGE, LENOX, MA

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine discusses James McMaster, the Catholic editor of the Freeman's Journal, characterizing him as an extraordinary polemicist who was imprisoned for his "vituperations" against the war. McMaster argued the war denied the rights of free men and refused to retract his views upon release. The segment also features Samuel "Sunset" Cox, a Democrat who famously attacked New England Puritanism as the source of the nation's meddling and moral extremity. 1885 HENRY BEECHER AS GULLIVER

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine details the intense political opposition Lincoln faced in 1863 following the Emancipation Proclamation. He highlights Clement Vallandigham, a "Peace Democrat" leader who viewed the war as unwinnable and Lincoln as a "Puritan despot." Carwardine explains that the Democraticcoalition was fractured by religion, specifically between Catholics and Protestants, yet united in opposing the administration. Lincoln ultimately banished Vallandigham to the Confederacy to neutralize his influence. 1880 HENRY BEECHER

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. The discussion turns to Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens'"Cornerstone Speech," which explicitly defined racial inequality as the Confederacy's foundation, a stance widely condemned in the North. Carwardine notes that despite earlier tensions, Lincoln viewed his fast days as successful, utilizing them and meetings with religious delegations to gauge public sentiment and prepare the ground for eventual emancipation. Lincoln valued these interactions to influence and learn from denominational leaders. 1877

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. In September 1861, Lincoln proclaimed a fast day, carefully avoiding specific references to slavery to maintain political unity. Carwardine details the conflict surrounding General Frémont'sunauthorized emancipation order, which Lincoln revoked to prevent losing loyal border states like Kentucky. Consequently, anti-slavery nationalists used the pulpits to criticize Lincoln's caution, demanding the war become an explicit crusade against the "gigantic crime" of slavery rather than just a restoration of the Union. 1870 HENRY BEECHER AND HIS SISTER HARRIET BEECHER STOWE.

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine explains that President-elect Lincoln did not view Republicans as overly aggressive, positioning himself as a constitution-respecting centrist rather than a radical. Lincoln opposed slavery's expansion but acknowledged its constitutional protection where it already existed, believing the South was misled by elites and would eventually return to the Union. Ironically, Lincoln and Buchanan, though political opposites, worshiped at the same Washington church, sharing an old-school Presbyterian background. 1861 ST. MICHAEL'S, CHARLESTON SOUTH CAROLINA

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026

Guest: Professor Richard Carwardine. Carwardine discusses President James Buchanan's January 4, 1861, national fast day, intended to unite a fracturing nation through prayer and repentance. While old-school Presbyterians like Charles Hodge supported this call for divine intervention, the effort largely failed to forestall war. The event highlighted three distinct groups of religious nationalists: conservative Unionists, anti-slavery Republicans viewing slavery as a national sin, and pro-slavery theologians defending the institution on scriptural grounds.1855-65 HENRY WARD BEECHER

Transcribed - Published: 20 January 2026