Bad People

How one of the first Tesco Clubcards was used to pay off a blackmailer threatening to poison frozen food. And how that Clubcard was used to catch him.Presented by journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw.Producer: Ciaran Tracey with help from James Shield Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioner: Izzy Lee-PoultonBad People is a BBC Studios production for BBC Sounds

Transcribed - Published: 26 December 2024

Former Metropolitan Police officer, Wayne Couzens, kidnapped, raped and murdered Sarah Everard, in March, 2021.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss the findings of The Angiolini Inquiry, and how the crime of indecent exposure may indicate a potential trajectory towards even more serious sexual and violent offending.Producer: Lorna Reader Executive Producers: Innes Bowen and Joe Kent Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioner: Izzy Lee-PoultonBad People is a BBC Studios production for BBC Sounds.

Transcribed - Published: 19 December 2024

Rob Parkes’ ex-wife lied about him being a drug dealer and a gang member. Then she tried to hire a hitman to have him killed.Rob tells his remarkable story of abuse, narrow escapes and survival.Presented by journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw.Producers: James Shield and Danita McIntyre Executive Producers: Joe Kent and Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioner: Izzy Lee-PoultonBad People is a BBC Studios production for BBC Sounds

Transcribed - Published: 12 December 2024

Ian Patterson was a sought after breast surgeon and patron of a charity supporting people with cancer, now he’s in prison.He was sentenced to 20 years in 2017 for carrying out unnecessary and unapproved procedures.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss the psychology of medical encounters and the prevalence of narcissism amongst surgeons.Producer: Rachel Oakes Executive Producers: Innes Bowen and Joe Kent Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green Commissioning Editor: Dylan HaskinsBad People is a BBC Studios production for BBC Sounds.

Transcribed - Published: 5 December 2024

Dr Gwen Adshead has spent almost thirty years working with the some of the most violent offenders in prisons and high security psychiatric facilities. Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw speak to Dr Gwen Adshead who is delivering this year's BBC Radio 4 Reith Lectures. She tells Bad People that to really understand violence we need to pay more attention to what perpetrators say about it.

Transcribed - Published: 28 November 2024

Should the parents of a high school shooter be held criminally responsible for the actions of their son?The landmark case of James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of US high school shooter Ethan Crumbley. They were charged with failing to prevent their son's fatal attack.Presented by journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw.Producer: James Shield Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioner: Izzy Lee-Poulton

Transcribed - Published: 21 November 2024

Faye Dunn was a professional footballer who played for the England women's team. In 2020, police discovered she had another career in organised crime.Amber Haque tells the story of how Faye and her father were rumbled in the biggest organised crime bust in British history. Dr Julia Shaw delves into the research on double lives and going into crime with a family member.Producers: Maggie Latham, Lorna Reader and Fiona Woods Production Apprentice: Danita McIntyre Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioner: Izzy Lee-Poulton

Transcribed - Published: 14 November 2024

The story of how teenager Michelle Carter's text messages to suicidal boyfriend Conrad Roy resulted in death for him and a charge of manslaughter for her.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss whether it should be a crime to encourage someone to take their own life?Producers: Lorna Reader and Rachel Oakes. Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 7 November 2024

Sherri Lynn Lamarche was the unassuming bookkeeper in a family real estate business in Nova Scotia. She was trusted so much that she managed to steal millions before anyone noticed.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss how criminal psychology's model of the "fraud triangle" perfectly fits this ultimate office drama. It's a classic fraud story of opportunity, incentive and rationalisation.Producers: Ciaran Tracey with help from Lorna Reader, Rhiannon Cobb and Shabnam Grewal Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 31 October 2024

In February 2024, mother-of-six, beloved parenting guru and social media star Ruby Franke, was convicted and jailed for child abuse.The case struck at the heart of what it means to be a good carer in today’s society, and how even the most loving parent can end up committing unimaginable cruelty.Join criminal psychologist, Dr Julia Shaw and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque as they discuss this truly heartbreaking and mind-boggling case – as well as exploring how what and who we choose to follow and interact with on social media can raise serious moral questions too.Producers: Maggie Latham and Rachel Oakes Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 24 October 2024

Rebecca Coriam, a 24-year-old from Chester, was working on a cruise ship off the Pacific coast of Mexico when she disappeared in 2011. The story of how the police and the cruise line dealt with her disappearance shines a light on the difficulties of getting a thorough investigation when someone goes missing at sea.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss this story and find out more about crime on cruise ships.Producers: Maggie Latham and Rachel Oakes Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 17 October 2024

Showtrial series 2 is a gripping BBC screen drama about climate activism, civil disobedience and police corruption. Screenwriter Ben Richards joins Julia and Amber to talk about the bad things his characters do and why.Producer: Lorna Reader Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 10 October 2024

Magdalena Cruz did not know who her father was. But she knew he was a rapist. An ancestry DNA test led her to her likely family. When she looked at their profiles on social media she came across the photograph of a man with a striking family resemblance.Journalist Amber Haque and criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw delve into the story.Producers: Ciaran Tracey and James Shield Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 3 October 2024

Three boys from the same Sunderland school were found dead within a few months of each other in the early 1990s. Their deaths were initially blamed on sniffing glue to get high. But the boys' families thought they had been murdered. And they were right. Two years later, Steven Grieveson was convicted of serial murder. But the investigation wasn't over.Presenters: Criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw and journalist and true crime documentary maker Amber Haque.Producers: Maggie Latham and Rachel Oakes Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 26 September 2024

"Pretendians" are people who falsely claim a native American or indigenous Canadian identity.In 2024, a 59 year old woman who falsely claimed her daughters were adopted Inuit girls was sentenced to three years in a Canadian prison. Karima Manji lied about her daughters' heritage to claim $150,000 from funds reserved for Inuit people. The judge sentenced her to more than the two years recommended by the prosecution, stating that Manji had "victimized the Inuit of Nunavut by stealing their identity."Should crimes involving cultural appropriation attract a heavier sentence?Hosts: Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque.Producer: Shabnam Grewal Assistant Producer: Rachel Oakes Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 19 September 2024

Baby girl Delimar Vera is declared dead in a house fire. Years later, the bereaved mother thinks she recognises her at a party. The girl she thinks is her daughter is called Aaliyah. The woman who has brought her up claims to be Aaliyah’s birth mother.Hosts Amber Haque and Dr Julia Shaw discuss the truth about Delimar Vera’s real fate – and how the research on phantom pregnancy and child abduction help us understand what happened and why.Producers: Maggie Latham and Rachel Oakes Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Recording Studio: 88Hertz Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 12 September 2024

A law abiding businessman turns criminal after medical treatment. Are hormones to blame?Richard Davis was a 42 year old asexual with a highly successful business and no criminal record. Then he experienced a sudden change of personality. He became sex-obsessed - buying pornography and hiring escorts. Within two years of this personality change, he had convictions for assault and dishonesty and was banned from being a company director.Journalist Amber Haque digs into the newspaper and court archives to tell this extraordinary story. Criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw explains why, in this case, the defence "My hormones made me do it," might be more than a lame excuse.Producer: Maggie Latham with help from Shabnam Grewal and James Shield Researcher: Rhiannon Cobb Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Mix Engineer: John Scott Recording Studio: 88Hertz Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 5 September 2024

Presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque meet the world's most famous victim of romance fraud: Cecilie Fjellhoy. After exposing the so-called Tindler Swindler in a Netflix hit, Cecilie confronted him in person and set up a campaign to help other victims.Cecilie's life changed radically after she swiped right on the Tinder profile of Simon Leviev.He took her on a private jet on their first date, told her he was the son of a billionaire diamond dealer and seemed to live a jet set life. But though he dressed in designer clothes from head to toe, drove expensive cars and had an entourage that included a chauffeur and a bodyguard, the handsome Israeli was actually a convicted fraudster whose real name was Shimon Hayut.Once he knew Cecilie had fallen in love with him, he told her his life was in danger and that he needed to stay alive. He maxed out her credit card immediately and then begged her to get more money. She managed to borrow nearly $200,000 which he promised to pay back but he never did. She ended up bankrupt and depressed while he moved on to defrauding other women.She tells Julia and Amber about life after Netflix - and discusses the psychological tricks that romance fraudsters play.Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque Producer: Shabnam Grewal Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Unit Manager: Lucy Bannister Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Researcher: Rhiannon Cobb Mix Engineer: John Scott Recording Studio: 88Hertz Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Izzy Lee-Poulton, Adam Eland and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 29 August 2024

In TV dramas, criminal profilers solve crimes that the police cannot. Presenters Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque look at a real life case. An anonymous blackmailer threatens acid attacks unless his demands for pornographic photos of female airline staff at Gatwick are met. The police are stumped. So, they call in a professor of criminal psychology. What he says astounds them. Further information: Julia refers in this episode to the following study: Analysing criminal profiling validity: Underlying problems and future directions. Rita Alexandra Brilha Ribeiro, Cristina Branca Bento de Matos Soeiro. International Journal of Law and Psychiatry Volume 74, January–February 2021, 101670 Cracker is a 1990s ITV drama series about a fictional criminal profiler. The series was produced by Granada Television, written by Jimmy McGovern and starred Robbie Coltraine. In August 2024, the series was available on ITVX. Jimmy McGovern appears in this June 2021 episode of Bad People, talking about another one of his crime dramas: Time. The Real Cracker was a documentary series produced by Oxford Films. It was inspired by the TV drama Cracker. A book based on the series was published in 2002 by Channel 4 Books: The Real Cracker: Investigating the Criminal Mind by Stephen Cook. Producer: Innes Bowen Editor: Philip Sellars Unit Manager: Lucy Bannister Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Researcher: Rhiannon Cobb Mix Engineer: John Scott Recording Studio: 88Hertz Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Adam Eland and Sarah Green

Transcribed - Published: 21 August 2024

Bad People is back!Criminal psychologist, Dr Julia Shaw, is joined by a new co-host: journalist and documentary maker Amber Haque.The new season starts with a true crime story that went viral during lockdown.Penny Jackson looked as if she was living the middle class retirement dream. Holidays and a retirement home by the sea.But cooped up with her husband during lockdown, her anger got out of control. After a petty row about food she stabbed her husband to death. When police arrested for murder, she said, "Oh good." Video footage of her being taken into custody in her M&S pyjamas went viral.Amber looks into the couple's lives for clues about what led to their fatal row. Julia and Amber discuss coercive control, toxic relationships and complex grief.Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Amber Haque Producers: Ciaran Tracey and James Shield Executive Producer: Innes Bowen Unit Manager: Lucy Bannister Production Coordinator: Juliette Harvey Researcher: Rhiannon Cobb Mix Engineer: John Scott Recording Studio: 88Hertz Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Assistant Commissioners: Adam Eland, Sarah Green and Izzy Lee-Poulton

Transcribed - Published: 15 August 2024

Bad People is back! Criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw makes a return to the series with a new co-host: journalist Amber Haque. Each episode tells the story of a true crime and explains why people do bad things. Murder, blackmail, fraud and much more.Listen every Thursday. Bad People is a BBC Studios Audio production for BBC Sounds.

Transcribed - Published: 8 August 2024

It’s the Bad People finale. In this last ever episode, Julia and Sofie dig into the ethics of the media covering criminal cases. After a press “campaign of vilification”, all charges against Christopher Jefferies were dismissed. The tabloids had incorrectly painted him as Joanna Yeates’ killer. Mr Jefferies took the newspapers responsible to court - and won. He then gave evidence during the Leveson Inquiry, the UK’s landmark investigation into wrongdoing and alleged corruption within the media. In this episode of Bad People, criminal psychologist Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen discuss why many of us think the media is biased against our own views because of “the hostile media effect”. They talk about the Leveson inquiry and what makes media coverage of crimes bad -- or good. At the end, they summarise what they learned from working on Bad People for the past three and a half years. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Laura Northedge and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 29 June 2023

In December 2010, the UK media became fixated with the disappearance of 25 year-old Joanna Yeates. When her body was discovered, many tabloid newspapers felt certain they knew the identity of her murderer. Christopher Jefferies had been Joanna’s landlord and was considered by some to be “strange”. The claims against Christopher were unfounded. Being hounded by the press left lasting reputational and psychological scars. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen ask: is it possible to have a fair trial when the tabloids have decided you are guilty? They explore research on prejudicial pre-trial publicity as well as “media shock” effects after police issue warnings about a killer on the loose. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producers: Laura Northedge and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 22 June 2023

Daniella Isaacs, the creator of the new BBC Sounds audio drama, People Who Knew Me, joins Dr Julia Shaw in a conversation about faking one’s own death and using the terrorist attacks in America on September 11th 2001 to do so. We ask, who fakes their own death and why? And how easy is it to pull it off? Warning: This episode contains references to the 9/11 attacks and also suicide and drowning. CREDITS Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Producer: Simona Rata Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 15 June 2023

Convicted child sex offender Mark Sutherland has arranged to meet a 13 year-old boy at a bus station, but when he arrives a team of adult “paedophile hunters” greet him with a video camera. In this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore vigilante justice. What right, if any, do these “hunters” have to track down sex offenders? When text messaging, do people have a right to privacy? And do sex offender registries make us safer or just more scared? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 25 May 2023

There was international outcry in 2011 when the celebrated Chinese artist Ai Weiwei was arrested at Beijing airport and imprisoned. The charges against him were vague. So what was Ai Weiwei really in prison for? To begin to answer this, we need to understand the historical background: the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Claiming to purge the country of 'impure' elements, students were encouraged to attack their teachers. Intellectuals were exiled. Books were burned. And the purge didn’t stop there. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore anti-intellectualism, and how politicians have exploited its appeal. What is the difference between intelligence and intellectualism? What can the anti-intellectualism scale teach us about the psychological origins of a lack of trust in experts? And, what does all of this have to do with art? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 13 May 2023

It’s 2001 and 14-year-old Anthony Haynes has died. He was one of some 50 kids who participated in a military-style, wilderness programme that was supposed to give troubled teens a new start. Hailed at the time as a local legend among parents struggling with their children, Anthony’s mother had enrolled him after a spell of behavioural problems. Yet, the wilderness therapy Anthony experienced consisted of drill instructions and desert isolation- the sort of ‘tough love’ rife within America’s Troubled Teen Industry. Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the original ideas behind wilderness therapy, the experiences of survivors such as Paris Hilton, and the efficacy of the programmes of this unregulated industry. And, what are alternative interventions for reducing adolescent delinquency? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Music: Matt Chandler Production Coordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 11 May 2023

The Central Park Five confess on video to police and appear on every front page in America. But why did they confess if it’s not true? In this second episode of this two parter, Bad People hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how the police interview children. Should they be treated the same as adults? Or is there a better way to extract their testimony? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Co-ordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 4 May 2023

It’s 9pm in New York City. More than thirty young men have gathered on the corner of 110th Street and 5th Avenue. They are attacking innocent people in Central Park. What they don’t know is that a woman will also be sexually assaulted, and that five of their friends will be convicted for a brutal crime they didn’t commit. The Central Park Five falsely confess on video to police. In this episode of Bad People, hosts Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how well we know our right to silence, how much it is influenced by what we see on TV. They also ask: when does silence look like guilt? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey and Richard Collings Music: Matt Chandler Production Co-ordinator: Jonathan Harris Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 27 April 2023

In 2015 a woman in Saskatoon was strangled by a belt. Did her friend do it? She has been strangled by a belt that lies next to her body - the same belt her best friend was wearing in a photograph of the two of them that was posted on Facebook earlier that evening. What can really be learned by what we choose to post online? And what might cause a friendship to take a violent turn? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore the psychology of “breaking up” with friends, the role of social media for teens’ mental health, and why people so rarely murder their friends. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Clip: The He Lab “About Lulu and Nana: Twin Girls Born Healthy After Gene Surgery As Single-Cell Embryos” Audio clips: CBS News and Saskatoon StarPhoenix

Transcribed - Published: 20 April 2023

For her role in the Moors Murders, Myra Hindley was for many years described as ‘‘the most hated woman in Britain’’. So when her escape plot from HMP Holloway in late 1973 is part-aided by then prison guard Patricia Cairns, there is dismay at why anyone would go to such lengths for someone convicted of Hindley’s crimes. What was unearthed during the police investigation, however, was that Hindley and Cairns had established a relationship - not only through interactions within the prison, but through the deeper communication of letter writing that spanned some two years. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore how Hindley became an “unwitting architect” of whole-life sentences, and discuss the citizens who write to inmates. Why do people become prison pen pals and when is it unethical? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Produced by Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Transcribed - Published: 6 April 2023

In Winson Green, Birmingham a category B prison is fit to burst, and on the 9th of October 2018 it finally does. Armed with one syringe, three men set five hundred convicts free and over the next twelve hours the building is almost burnt to the ground. The Winson Green riot was one of the largest prison mutinies for twenty-five years and leaves the public wondering how this could have happened. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore when prison riots become inevitable? What factors make violence more likely? And can PRISM prevent it? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 30 March 2023

In 2015, fifteen-year-old Shamima Begum left the UK with two of her friends on a flight bound for Turkey. But the East London schoolgirls were not going on holiday. They were going to join thousands of recruits from across the globe in the Syrian city of Raqqa. They were going to join the so-called Islamic State. Four years later Shamima Begum, now nineteen, was found in a refugee camp and the UK Government revoked her citizenship, something she’s been trying to get back ever since. But what would make a teenager want to join a group like Islamic State? What were the “push and pull factors” linked to ISIS radicalisation? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen are joined by Josh Baker, the journalist behind ‘The Shamima Begum Story’, where for the first time her account of what happened is investigated. This episode contains clips from the BBC Radio Five Live podcast ‘I’m Not A Monster: The Shamima Begum Story’ CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 23 March 2023

In 1861 William Mumler claims to capture a spirit of dead on camera and offers grieving people the chance to sit with a lost loved one, one last time. These controversial photographs unleashed a debate about the nature of reality and truth and marked a cultural moment which questioned whether what we see can really be believed. But is this a new problem? Are deepfakes forcing us to examine the same questions today? On this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss dystopian futures, deep fake technology, the uncanny valley, false memories and ask whether the law can really keep up. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Kate White and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 16 March 2023

It’s 1992 and Barry Kingston, a man with admitted paedophilic tendencies, is accused of indecently assaulting a child. The police have photographs and audio-tape to prove his involvement - and yet Kingston still pleads not guilty. The boy in the case explains he’d been drugged without his consent. But so, it turns out, had Kingston. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the relationship between violent crime, drugs and alcohol, and the moral minefield of involuntary intoxication and drugged intent. Can you be convicted of a crime you committed while unknowingly under the influence? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Hannah Ward Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 9 March 2023

It’s 2007 in Perugia Italy. A body has been found, but the American suspect maintains her innocence. Amanda Knox spent 7 years in prison for a crime she didn’t commit, but the long path from conviction to acquittal led to her fluency in Italian and defending herself in court. In this episode, can we ever defend ourselves when we don’t speak the language? And when does bad translation lead to bad justice? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Produced by Kate White and Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Bad People is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds.

Transcribed - Published: 2 March 2023

In April 2018, a sealed plastic bag is found tossed next to a dumpster in Coachella, USA. In it, seven tiny, squeaking, new-born puppies. CCTV footage of the puppy dumping culprit, Deborah Sue Culwell, sparked outrage. On this episode of Bad People, we discuss animal welfare and cruelty, the new psychological categorisation Animal Hoarding Disorder (AHD), the link between animal cruelty and interpersonal violence, and why we often care so deeply about some animals (pets) while ignoring the suffering of others (livestock). CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 23 February 2023

Bobbie was eight months pregnant and shared the good news with her online community. But because she met Lisa Montgomery, Bobbie would never have the future she hoped for. In one of the most horrific ways imaginable, Lisa steals her baby. Lisa was the first woman to be put to death by the US government in 67 years. But did she deserve capital punishment? Is the death penalty ever justified? On this episode of Bad People, Sofie Hagen and Dr Julia Shaw discuss botched executions, lethal injections, and the UN's call for the global abolition of capital punishment. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 16 February 2023

Presenter and journalist Sam Holder speaks to Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen about his new BBC podcast, Please Protect Abraham and whether we’re failing vulnerable witnesses. Sam tells Julia and Sofie the story of Abraham Badru, a young boy who rescues a teenage girl from a violent sexual attack. But witnessing this crime changes his life forever, because now he’s a target too. Together they examine what it means to be a witness when you need protection. What ‘special measures’ can be used to keep us safe? And are the measures even affective if you can get them in the first place? All ten episodes of ‘Please Protect Abraham’ can be found on BBC Sounds now. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 26 January 2023

In November 2018 Chinese scientist Dr He Jiankui made a big announcement; he had illegally “edited” the DNA of Chinese twin girls Lulu and Nana in an attempt to prevent them from contracting HIV. The news made global headlines and the scientific community reacted with horror. But why is it so controversial to mess with our genes? Dr Julia Shaw is joined by geneticist Dr Adam Rutherford to discuss the dangers of gene editing and how it relates to Nazism and the dark history of trying to breed “better people”, the subject of Adam’s BBC Radio 4 series Bad Blood: The History of Eugenics. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Dr Adam Rutherford Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC Clip: The He Lab “About Lulu and Nana: Twin Girls Born Healthy After Gene Surgery As Single-Cell Embryos”

Transcribed - Published: 12 January 2023

On the 22nd of May 1987 Kenneth Parks killed his mother-in-law and almost killed her husband. He claims he was asleep with amnesia for most of the event. The burden of proof is now on the defence. How can he prove that he was asleep? And if he can, does it mean he will walk free? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen investigate how sleep scientists can examine our brainwaves to see whether we are conscious or awake. Can stress, anxiety, or sleep deprivation make us more likely to sleepwalk? What is the legal defence of “non-insane automatism”, and why is it so incredibly hard to argue in a courtroom? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 5 January 2023

On the 22nd of May 1987 Kenneth Parks got into his car and drove 27 km up a three-lane highway to his beloved parents-in-law's home. He claims he was asleep through his horrific actions until he woke up with blood dripping from his hands. In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen look into the science of sleepwalking, sleep terrors, and related parasomnias. What is REM sleep? What are we capable of while asleep? What kind of sleep disruptions are normal? And is there a link between “disorders of arousal” and violence? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 29 December 2022

Dr Julia Shaw unwraps Bad People’s choice of true crime podcasts in 2022. She talks to Gabriel Gatehouse about his series The Coming Storm, which began as an investigation into the Q-Anon phenomenon and has evolved to explore major conspiracies that have engulfed politics in the US and beyond. Julia also meets Winifred Robinson, the acclaimed BBC journalist whose podcast The Boy in the Woods revisits the disturbing case of murdered six year-old Rikki Neave. And journalist Una Mullally discusses the extraordinary story behind Obscene, a BBC podcast that examines the political scandal that erupted following the discovery of a suspected killer in the home of the Irish Attorney General in 1982. CREDITS Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 22 December 2022

Dr Julia Shaw unwraps Bad People’s choice of true crime podcasts in 2022. She talks to BBC social media and disinformation correspondent Marianna Spring about her series Disaster Trolls, which investigates the trolling of victims of terror attacks by people who claim they never happened. Julia also meets Audrey Gillan, the acclaimed journalist who’s podcast Bible John: Creation of a Serial Killer reinvestigates horrific murders that shocked Glasgow over fifty years ago. We hear from Formula One expert Sarah Holt about the Spygate podcast which tells the story behind industrial espionage and bitter rivalries in motor racing. And Rachel Monroe discusses her story of lawlessness on the high-seas, BBC podcast Lost at Sea. CREDITS Presenter: Dr Julia Shaw Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland

Transcribed - Published: 15 December 2022

It’s the early hours of the morning in Merseyside. Peter Stubbs is thrown out of Cindy’s Nightclub, then brutally beaten in the street. Constable Dytham is standing nearby and watches it happen. The minutes tick on and the violence subsides, but it’s clear that Peter is dead. On this episode of Bad People, hosts Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen explore whether it should be a crime to do nothing. They ask why we don't step in when we know we should, and discover what happens when inaction leads to conviction. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Lauren Armstrong-Carter Editors: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 8 December 2022

In 2010 a serial robber was on the loose in Cincinnati, US. Surveillance footage shows a clear image of a black man, with a black hoodie and sunglasses on. When tips come in the police follow the trail to a woman’s house. When she opens the door she says, “I know why you're here. I just saw on television my son robbing a bank”. After arresting their prime suspect, it emerges that the police have the wrong man in custody. So if their suspect didn’t commit the crime, who has his face? On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the growing problem of hyperreal masks and examine the link between our faces and our identities. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 10 November 2022

In 1895 a bronze statue of slave trader Edward Colston was erected on top of a stone plinth in the centre of Bristol. Colston had made large donations to charities, schools and hospitals in the city, and certain businessmen saw him as a philanthropist. A plaque beneath the statue described Colston as one of the “most virtuous and wise sons of the city”. But there was no mention anywhere that he made his fortune as a slave trader. 125 years later, in 2020, the statue was still there despite many petitions to Bristol City Council for it to be removed. Then, during a demonstration, the statue was toppled and thrown in the river. Four young protesters soon find themselves in court and at the centre of an intense political and legal debate. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss whether it is ever right to break the law and what the law itself has to say about this controversial case. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Kate White Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 3 November 2022

On the 6th of March 1995 Scott Amedure reveals his growing sexual attraction to a friend in front of a large studio audience. Behind the scenes, Jonathan Schmitz is waiting to meet a secret admirer. Jonathan is led on stage of the Jenny Jones Show and each man is revealed to the other. Scott’s face lights up but Jonathan’s expression is inscrutable, and the crowd erupts with laughter around them. Just three days after filming, Jonathan Schmitz shot his friend Scott in the chest, killing him there and then. But was Schmitz fully culpable? What happens when shame becomes public? On this episode of Bad People Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen question the duty of care producers have to contestants, the line between entertainment and exploitation, and the consequences of public humiliation on a national scale. CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Laura Northedge Assistant Producer: Hannah Ward Editor: Anna Lacey Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultant for The Open University: Dr Sarah Laurence Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 27 October 2022

On this episode of Bad People, producer and journalist Georgia Catt speaks to Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen about her new BBC podcast, Burn Wild. Georgia tells Julia and Sofie the story of the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), a group of radical underground environmentalists known as ‘elves’ and together they examine how a movement that never killed anyone became the FBI’s number one domestic terror threat. Should we ditch the term ‘eco-terrorism’ and how far can we go to stop the planet from burning? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editors: Anna Lacey and Martin Smith Music: Matt Chandler Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 20 October 2022

A popular chef instructor at a culinary school in Oregon is found shot dead in the campus kitchen. Police think it’s a homicide but have trouble establishing a motive. There are intriguing similarities between the gun that killed Chef Brophy and one belonging to their prime suspect, but they are not the same weapon. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen ask what we really know about the increasing concern surrounding unregistered firearms or “ghost guns”. Can deadly weapons really be manufactured on 3D printers, who is supplying them and do they make it easier to get away with murder? CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Assistant Producer: Editor: Music: Matt Chandler Academic Consultants for The Open University: Dr James Munro Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland #BadPeople_BBC

Transcribed - Published: 13 October 2022