Katie Simpson was a show jumper with a promising future.

She was just bursting with life.

A genius on horseback.

It took four years to bring Jonathan Creswell, her killer, to court.

He was within a whisker of getting away with him.

This is a story that rocked Northern Ireland.

A controlling and coercive individual

accepted in society

and no one brought their hand up and reported it.

Assume nothing. Murder at the stables.

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BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

You're listening to Bad People,

the podcast about the bad things people do and why.

Amber, as a journalist, you've been to lots of interesting places.

Yeah.

And you've spoken to many interesting people. Have you ever spoken to someone who's committed an extremely violent crime?

I actually have. When I've been covering crime over the years, understandably so, my focus was always on victims. They're really front and center of the storytelling and making sure everything's sort of being done sensitively to what they've gone through. But I think I reached

this point where I kind of grew frustrated, like when I was going to court cases and I was just

seeing people reduce down to these kind of labels of victims and perpetrators.

And I was like, I just want to understand more about the steps before.

And obviously, meeting perpetrators is a big part of understanding crime.

...