Slate News

ICE agents have begun concealing their identities in masks and plainclothes while making arrests. Experts—including a former ICE official—say that endangers those agents, and violates the trust between law enforcement and the citizenry. Guests: Philip Bump, columnist for the Washington Post Scott Shuchart, ICE’s Assistant Director for Regulatory Affairs and Policy Counselor to the Director, 2022–2025. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 30 June 2025

Under a normal administration, a merger between two large advertising firms might attract the government’s interest for anti-monopoly reasons. Under this one, the Federal Trade Commission is creating conditions to…ensure that X still gets advertiser dollars? Guest: Kate Conger, technology reporter for the New York Times. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 29 June 2025

This week: Zohran Mamdani won the Democratic primary in the race for New York City mayor.  Felix Salmon, Emily Peck and Elizabeth Spiers discuss the alarmist reactions from business leaders to the Mamdani’s win and why he’s hardly the threat to capitalism they make him out to be. Then, Trump has turned his sights on Jay Powell once again, threatening to prematurely name his successor for Fed Chair. The hosts break down why this “shadow chair” tactic is unlikely to work. And finally, mega-billionaire Jeff Bezos is finally marrying his beloved Lauren Sanchez in an over-the-top, star-studded wedding in Venice. Whatever happened to stealth wealth and quiet luxury? In the Slate Plus episode: The MAGA Blue Collar Obsession  Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Published: 28 June 2025

The cataclysmic opinions from SCOTUS on Friday certainly suggest that the courts can no longer save us. In fact, in Trump v. CASA., we learned that it’s somehow not actually the job of the courts to save us from blatant violations of our rights. With universal injunctions drop-kicked and district court judges sidelined, it’s going to be nearly impossible to vindicate your rights in Trump’s America. No rights are safe when the only way to get relief is to sue the government yourself. And yet in a definitely-not-planned-last-day-of-the-term-with-all-the-big-cases lineup, several other bad things happened as well. Hosts Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern discuss all of Friday's big decisions including Mahmoud v. Taylor, which will allow parents to opt-out of having to hear about LGBTQ+ people in schools.  This is part of Opinionpalooza, Slate’s coverage of the major decisions from the Supreme Court. The best way to support our work is by joining Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock weekly bonus episodes of Amicus—you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Also! Sign up for Slate’s Legal Brief: the latest coverage of the courts and the law straight to your inbox.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 28 June 2025

In addition to the three-dimensional war of bombs and missiles, Iran and Israel—and the US—are squaring off in a cyber battle. With everything from water infrastructure to banking connected to the internet in some way, how much damage can cyberattacks do?   Guest: Maggie Miller, POLITICO cybersecurity reporter Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 27 June 2025

This week, Emily Bazelon and guest hosts Ruth Marcus and James Forman discuss Trump’s bombing of Iran’s nuclear facilities with guest Steven Cook from the Council on Foreign Relations, Zohran Mamdani’s stunning victory in the NYC Democratic mayoral primary, and an astonishing whistleblower report that sheds incriminating light on Trump’s judicial nominee Emil Bove and defiance of court orders in deportation flight cases. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily Bazelon and guest hosts Ruth Marcus and James Forman discuss how Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson’s approach differs from the other liberal Justices and her ferocious critiques of the Roberts Court’s processes and opinions.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Alison Bechdel about her new book, Spent.   Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 26 June 2025

How Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani upset the better-connected, better-funded, better-known candidate in New York’s Democratic mayoral primary—and how he might actually govern if he makes it into office. Guest: Ross Barkan, contributing writer at the New York Times Magazine, New York Magazine columnist, and Editor-in-Chief of The Metropolitan Review. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 26 June 2025

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Yahoo senior entertainment reporter Kelsey Weekman, who is fresh off the plane from this year’s VidCon. Unlike past years, when TikTokkers took over the Anaheim Convention Center, VidCon 2025 put YouTubers front and center, inducting the first creators into the VidCon Hall of Fame. With platforms like MySpace and Vine coming and going, how has YouTube stuck around? Why can’t TikTok dethrone it? And who on earth is “jmancurly”??? This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 25 June 2025

A jury recently found Greenpeace liable for more than $660 million in damages to the company behind the Dakota Access pipeline for its role in the Standing Rock protests.  But the ramifications extend far beyond Greenpeace. As protests against various Trump administration policies heat up across the country, what does this lawsuit say about how opponents can weaponize the courts to criminalize protesters? Guest: Alleen Brown, independent investigative reporter, editor at Drilled Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 24 June 2025

In this Money Talks: Felix Salmon is joined by author James Frey to discuss his new novel, Next to Heaven, set among America’s ultra-ultra-rich, the real life billionaires he knows who inspired it, and why he thinks money is addicting.  Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Published: 24 June 2025

The Trump administration bombed three Iranian nuclear sites. While the Pentagon says these facilities are severely damaged, a diplomatic end to the conflict and a nuclear disarmament agreement feel less possible than ever. Guests: ⁠Gregory Gause⁠, Visiting Scholar at the ⁠Middle East Institute⁠ and ⁠Professor Emeritus of International Affairs⁠ for the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University  ⁠David Faris⁠, ⁠political science professor⁠ at Roosevelt University, ⁠contributing writer⁠ for Slate. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme and Rob Gunther.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 23 June 2025

ARC, the data broker owned by the country’s major airlines, has been selling domestic flight data in the US to Customs and Border Protection. But in the contract, they told CBP not to reveal where the data was from… why?  Guest: Joseph Cox, co-founder of 404 Media and the co-host of the 404 Media Podcast.  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 22 June 2025

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay start off with two sounds of the summer from a divisive Love Island USA contestant and a popstar “standing on business.” Then, they explain the controversy brewing behind Partiful, the hip event invite app that was a rising star in the tech world, until an NYC Noise blog post brought up that Partiful’s co-founders used to work at Palantir Technologies. Palantir is a data-analytics company co-founded by Peter Thiel, who was on President Trump’s transition team and a prominent, billionaire donor to his campaign, and for years, Palantir has been in contract with the CIA and ICE. Then in April, 404 Media was able to obtain Slacks from Palantir that showed they were helping Trump’s mass deportation effort. So, is Partiful canceled? And why are there no good invite apps left? Also: We're asking for your help on a future Pride episode! Send us your stories of coming out on social media. Whether you posted a quick tweet or produced a full on YouTube video about it, we want to hear from you! Did coming out online make things easier IRL or more complicated? Did seeing someone else's coming out post help you to do the same? Send us a voice memo at [email protected], and you might be featured on this future episode! This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 21 June 2025

This week: We become cheerleaders for crypto regulation, AI, and…Cheerleaders. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck and Elizabeth Spiers discuss the GENIUS act, the major crypto regulation bill which recently passed the Senate, and its implications for regulating stable coins and how it could upend payment processing as we know it in the United States. Then, the hosts discuss the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, who recently received a 400% raise as chronicled on the Netflix series America’s Sweethearts. And finally the hosts listen and react to an AI recreation of the podcast with the help by one of our listeners. Please enjoy your new parasocial relationships with Felix-bot, Emily-bot, and Elizabeth-bot. In the Slate Plus episode: What the hell is an EMILLI? Check out Felix’s recommendation, the Zero Art Fair, July 8-12, 2025, at The FLAG Art Foundation, NYC. Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 21 June 2025

The Justices seem intent on packing their summer vacation bags and getting on their way.  Earlier in the week, the court’s conservative supermajority upheld a Tennessee ban on gender-affirming care for trans kids. The logic behind the decision was…lacking (Slate Plus members can hear about this right now). In this episode, Dahlia Lithwick talks to Chase Strangio, the lawyer for the Tennessee plaintiffs, about where we go from here. Meanwhile, don’t miss the significance of Friday’s batch of rulings: co-host Mark Joseph Stern joins Dahlia to talk about the implications in cases seemingly about vaping and faxes and gas stations, but with much bigger implications. He also breaks down why Elena Kagan keeps joining the conservatives, and whether it foreshadows something bigger headed our way (light-at-end-of-tunnel-or-oncoming-train-dot-gif).  This is part of Opinionpalooza, Slate’s coverage of the major decisions from the Supreme Court this June. The best way to support our work is by joining Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock weekly bonus episodes of Amicus—you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen.  (If you are already a member, consider a donation or merch!) Also! Sign up for Slate’s Legal Brief: the latest coverage of the courts and the law straight to your inbox. Delivered every Tuesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 21 June 2025

The Trump administration's anti-immigration campaign has become defined by distasteful memes that gleefully portray the mass deportations being carried out across the country. It’s impossible to ignore… which is exactly what the administration wants.  Guest: Drew Harwell, tech reporter at the Washington Post.   Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Patrick Fort.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 20 June 2025

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss whether the US should join Israel’s war on Iran, the tragic Minnesota assassinations and why US political violence is surging now, and the Supreme Court’s unsurprising but willfully obtuse decision to uphold Tennessee’s youth transgender care ban. Here are this week’s chatters:   Emily: A Family Matter by Claire Lynch; The Fall of Affirmative Action: Race, the Supreme Court, and the Future of Higher Education by Justin Driver; A Flower Traveled in My Blood: The Incredible True Story of the Grandmothers Who Fought to Find a Stolen Generation of Children by Haley Cohen Gilliland.   John: Mary Cunningham for CBS News: Federal Reserve holds its benchmark interest rate steady at today's FOMC meeting; ABA Banking Journal: Fed’s Powell says some areas of U.S. may be ‘uninsurable’ in next decade   David: Trip Gabriel for the New York Times: William Langewiesche, the ‘Steve McQueen of Journalism,’ Dies at 70   Listener chatter from Jacob Podell in Chicago, Illinois: Juliana Kim for NPR: Family shows AI video of slain victim as an impact statement – possibly a legal first   For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the exciting possibilities and likely limitations of using AI tools for historical research and writing.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success.   Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 19 June 2025

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Slate staff writer Nadira Goffe, whose coverage of the United States v. Sean Combs (also known as the Diddy trial) has meant sharing a press room with YouTubers and streamers. These new media journalists have millions of followers, and aren’t beholden to the same editorial and ethical standards as traditional news outlets. As a result, they might just be beating them at their own game.  This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 18 June 2025

As the head of the Department of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem has made herself the official face of the Trump administration’s military crackdowns on protesters in Los Angeles, raids in majority-Democratic cities, and the deportations of student activists. How has she been able to consolidate so much power so quickly? Guest: Seth Tupper, Editor-in-Chief of the South Dakota Searchlight Ahilan Arulanantham, Co-Director of the Center for Immigration Law and Policy at the UCLA School of Law Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme and Rob Gunther.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 18 June 2025

On Friday, Israel launched massive strikes in Iran, targeting nuclear sites and killing top military leaders in the largest single-day attack on the country since the 1980s. Iran has retaliated, launching ballistic missiles at Israeli cities and killing at least eight people. Meanwhile, the Trump administration is walking a tightrope as it tries to maintain its alliance with Israel and negotiate a nuclear deal with Iran. How might the war escalate from here? And what does this mean for America’s relationships in the region? Guest: Gregg Carlstom, Middle East Correspondent for The Economist.  Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 17 June 2025

Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. fired all 17 members of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, accusing members of serving industry interests and never recommending against a vaccine. Their role, however, was advising on usage for vaccines that the FDA already approved.  As RFK Jr. restaffs the committee with his own “nonpartisan” members, where does that leave vaccines and the state of American health? Guest: Noel Brewer, Gillings Distinguished Professor in Public Health at the University of North Carolina. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 16 June 2025

A guide to keeping your phone, and your digital life, safe when you’re crossing the border. Guest: Lily Hay Newman, senior writer for WIRED covering information security. Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 15 June 2025

This week: Warner Brothers and Discovery breakup again. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck and Elizabeth Spiers examine the undoing of the three-year-old merger. Then, the hosts discuss runaway AI valuations as Meta spends billions on AI and xAI raises equity off a multi-billion dollar valuation. And finally, what effects are Trump’s aggressive immigration policies having on the economy? In the Slate Plus episode: What happened to happy hour? Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 14 June 2025

America feels very different this weekend. While the president’s planned military parade (that just happens to coincide with his birthday) will see tanks and armored vehicles rolling through Washington DC, federalized National Guard and US Marines have been deployed to Los Angeles over the objections of state and city electeds, many of us are reeling from seeing a sitting US Senator forced to the floor and cuffed for trying to ask a question, and dozens of protests are planned around the country to declare “No Kings”.  It’s. A. Lot. In this episode of Amicus  Dahlia Lithwick is joined by Mark Joseph Stern to try to process some of the events of the last week, and to understand where the law stands on the key question of whether President Trump lawfully deployed troops quell anti-ICE raid  protests in California that the administration is trying to claim are a “rebellion”. This is part of Opinionpalooza, Slate’s coverage of the major decisions from the Supreme Court this June. The best way to support our work is by joining Slate Plus. (If you are already a member, consider a donation or merch!)Also! Sign up for Slate’s Legal Brief: the latest coverage of the courts and the law straight to your inbox. Delivered every Tuesday. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 14 June 2025

Elon Musk has ridden off into the sunset acrimoniously (maybe), but the Department of Government Efficiency is just getting started. Will DOGE continue wildly cutting or is something even more chaotic coming next?  Guest: Makena Kelly, senior writer at WIRED.  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 13 June 2025

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss the ominous juxtaposition of Trump sending National Guard troops and Marines to quell mostly peaceful protests in LA with his impending military parade in DC, RFK Jr. firing the entire CDC vaccine advisory board and what this means for the future of vaccines, and a unanimous Supreme Court decision that makes it easier to win “reverse discrimination” cases. Here are this week’s chatters:   Emily: David Marchese for the New York Times: The Interview: Ocean Vuong Was Ready to Kill. Then a Moment of Grace Changed His Life; Ocean Vuong for the New York Times (Opinion): My Brother’s Keeper.   John: The University of Cambridge: Medieval Murder Maps; podcast series: Medieval Murders.   Juliette: Graham Dunbar for the Associated Press: What the Trump travel ban means for the 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympic Games; Chelsea Jones for CBS News Miami: Will ICE agents be at Miami’s FIFA Club World Cup games? Sheriff Cordero-Stutz responds after deleted CBP post.   Listener chatter from Katie Johnston in Bangor, Northern Ireland: Sophie Hardach for the BBC: How the humble chestnut traced the rise and fall of the Roman Empire   For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and guest host Juliette Kayyem discuss favorite dark comedy drama Hacks, which tackles the relationship between two women of differing generations and clashing opinions with witty banter and emotional richness.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success.   Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 12 June 2025

Donald Trump is sending the troops to California, while also getting ready for a big birthday parade—for himself and the US Army—in DC. Does grasping for symbols of military strength smack a bit of desperation?  Guests: Jamelle Bouie, columnist at the New York Times Jeremy Lindenfeld, reporter and Capital and Main local news fellow. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 12 June 2025

In Gaza, two million people are at risk of starvation, as Israeli-controlled aid has been repeatedly interrupted and marked by violence towards aid workers and chaos at distribution sites.  Guests:   Mohammed Mhawish, journalist and writer from Gaza City. Alex de Waal, Executive Director of the World Peace Foundation at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts, author of the 2017 book, Mass Starvation: The History and Future of Famine.  Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 11 June 2025

After years of bigger floats and bigger rainbow-ified logos, corporate sponsorship for Pride Month celebrations is dropping off this year. But, given that Pride is the commemoration of an uprising against police harassment, maybe that’s a good thing. Guests:   Christina Cauterucci, Slate senior writer and the host of Outward, Slate’s podcast about LGBTQ+ life, and Slow Burn: Gays Against Briggs. Tessa Skara, comedian, musician, co-host of annual comedy show “⁠Corporate Pride⁠” with ⁠James Tom⁠. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 10 June 2025

In this Money Talks: Felix Salmon is joined by Barry Lam, host of Slate’ philosophy podcast Hi-Phi Nation to help him explain how the GOP sees the budget deficit in the “Big Beautiful Bill” using philosophical arguments.  Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Published: 10 June 2025

When immigration raids began in the Los Angeles area last weekend, so did spontaneous protests. On Sunday, Trump federalized 2,000 California national guardsmen in response. While Trump stopped short of invoking the Insurrection Act, he claimed authority to send troops wherever ICE operations might be contested by mass demonstrations. Guest: Elizabeth Goitein, co-director of the Liberty and National Security Program at the Brennan Center for Justice. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 9 June 2025

Assistant Attorney General Gail Slater inherited the government’s antitrust case against Google and is eager to follow it through—but likely not for the same reasons as her predecessors.  Guest:  Nancy Scola, reporter and contributing writer at POLITICO.  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 8 June 2025

This week: Prices are going up, but inflation data has become unreliable under Trump. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck and Elizabeth Spiers discuss how staffing cuts at The Bureau of Labor Statistics have called economic data into question, and what that means for our economy. Then, someone went ahead and told Trump what TACO stands for and he’s pissed. The hosts discuss how a markets term coined by finance journalist Robert Armstrong went mainstream and whether Trump knowing about it changes anything. And finally, does Gen Z hate reading or not? What are these kinds of stories really telling us? In the Slate Plus episode: The most anticipated fight is ON! Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Published: 7 June 2025

Money talks, and sometimes it speaks as law by fiat from the highest court in the land. In this episode of  Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick delves into the impact of money on the judiciary and, eventually, on, democracy with Michael Podhorzer, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress.  They discuss how the many faces of big money in America, currently personified by Elon Musk and Donald Trump, have shaped the Supreme Court and government regulations. They explore the implications of recent court decisions, the downfall of unions, and the crucial role of collective action in preserving democracy. Michael Podhorzer also writes a weekly newsletter, Weekend Reading. This is part of Opinionpalooza, Slate’s coverage of the major decisions from the Supreme Court this June. The best way to support our work is by joining Slate Plus. (If you are already a member, consider a donation or merch!)Also! Sign up for Slate’s Legal Brief: the latest coverage of the courts and the law straight to your inbox. Delivered every Tuesday. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 7 June 2025

One of the goals of DOGE was to get rid of the “silos” that keep government agencies from sharing freely amongst themselves efficiently and instead organize data using tools offered by companies like Palantir. The thing is, a lot of those silos are there by design, and removing them could be a nightmare for privacy advocates.  Guest: Sheera Frenkel, tech reporter for the New York Times. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 6 June 2025

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss Elon Musk’s dramatic entrance into the fight between Republican factions over details of the Big Beautiful Bill, whether an independent judiciary can survive in the face of new threats, and the implications of Trump’s cruel new travel bans. Here are this week’s chatters: Emily: Chris Cameron for the New York Times: Trump Orders Investigation of Biden and His Aides; Matt Brown and Chris Megerian for the Associated Press: Trump orders investigation into Biden’s actions as president, ratcheting up targeting of predecessor; Amanda Seitz and Geoff Mulvihill for the Associated Press: Trump administration revokes guidance requiring hospitals to provide emergency abortions; Reva B. Siegel and Mary Ziegler in Virginia Law Review: Abortion’s New Criminalization – A History-and-Tradition Right to Health-Care Access After Dobbs. John: The Economist: How to prevent drunken punch-ups; Maya Goldman for Axios: Seniors’ marijuana use reaches new high; Benjamin H. Han, Kevin H. Yang, Charles M. Cleland, et al. in JAMA: Trends in Past-Month Cannabis Use Among Older Adults. David: Ian Austen for the New York Times: A 355-Year-Old Company That Once Owned One-Third of Canada Is Shutting Down; Heather Whiteside for The Conversation: More than a department store: The long, complicated legacy behind Hudson’s Bay Company; Terina Ria for City Cast Salt Lake: How Julia Reagan Became a Billboard Icon; City Cast Salt Lake Podcast: The Julia Reagan Billboard Debate, Permanent Farmers Market, MomTok Parody (audio 32:00). Listener chatter from Sam Rutledge in Eugene, Oregon: 2021 Telephone Game; Artist Application for 2025 Telephone Game For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss whether the term “TACO” (“Trump Always Chickens Out”) is a useful way of understanding Trump, and what else might be driving his unpredictable and impulsive actions. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Kevin Bendis Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 5 June 2025

This is part of ⁠Opinionpalooza⁠, Slate’s coverage of the major decisions from the Supreme Court this June. The best way to support our work is by joining ⁠Slate Plus⁠. (If you are already a member, consider a ⁠donation⁠ or ⁠merch⁠!)Also! Sign up for ⁠Slate’s Legal Brief:⁠ the latest coverage of the courts and the law straight to your inbox. Delivered every Tuesday. Dahlia Lithwick hosts an 'Opinionpalooza' special of Amicus, covering Thursday’s decisions from the Supreme Court. She and Mark Joseph Stern dive into Ames vs. Ohio Youth Department, discussing Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson’s opinion on reverse discrimination, Justice Sonia Sotomayor’s refreshing nod to the establishment clause in the Catholic Charities case, and Justice Kagan’s narrow decision in Mexico’s lawsuit against US gun sellers; a decision that was not the win the gun lobby hoped for. Together, they reveal the strategy emerging from the court’s liberals this term. The episode wraps up with a deep dive into an uptick in dismissed cases and its potential link to audacious former Supreme Court clerks. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 5 June 2025

Since January, the Trump administration has suspended the right to claim asylum at the southern border. One narrower form of protection—for those who had been tortured by their governments—was supposed to remain. But lawyers have realized that even that appears to be gone. Guest:  Mark Betancourt, freelance reporter covering immigration from DC, who wrote “This Ethiopian Woman Was Tortured by Her Government. The US is Sending Her Home Anyway” for KQED. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 5 June 2025

After 20 months of war, with violence erupting far from the Middle East, where is the future of Zionism headed? Guest:  Isaac Saul, Tangle executive editor and author of “I think I’m leaving Zionism, or Zionism is leaving me.” Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 4 June 2025

Five years after George Floyd’s murder sparked nationwide protests, the legacy of that movement is still being written in Minneapolis and America writ large—even as some attempt to erase it. Guest:   Marcia Howard, president of the teacher chapter of Minneapolis Federation of Teachers Brandt Williams, senior editor covering race, class and communities for MPR News.   Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 3 June 2025

Hosts Alex Kirshner, Ben Lindbergh and  Lindsay Gibbs break down the NBA Finals and the savvy draft and trade decisions that led to this year’s showdown between two small-market teams. They also unpack the NHL Finals rematch between Edmonton and Florida and whether a Canadian team can finally reclaim glory. Finally, they speak with New York Times sports business reporter Ken Belson about looming tax code changes proposed by the Trump administration that could spell major headaches for NFL owners. On the bonus episode available exclusively for Slate Plus members, the panel discusses the vibe-crushing  “foul up 3,” strategy plaguing the end of high-stakes NBA games.  NBA Finals (4:41): Pacers vs. Thunder NHL Finals (19:49): Panthers vs. Oilers Sports Tax Issues (31:10): Will Trump kneecap sports team owners? (Note: time codes are only accurate for Slate Plus members, who listen ad-free.) Want more Hang Up and Listen? Subscribe to Slate Plus to immediately unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page, or visit slate.com/hangupplus to get access wherever you listen. You can email us at [email protected]. Podcast production and editing by Kevin Bendis, with production assistance from Ben Richmond. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 2 June 2025

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: voter discontentment at the two major parties is creating an opening for a far-right populist with an anti-immigration, protectionist agenda that economic experts warn would be devastating.  With a Trump trade deal in hand, can Keir Starmer and Labour give British voters something to vote for, rather than just against? Guest: Anand Menon, professor of European Politics and Foreign Affairs at Kings College London.  Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 2 June 2025

His time in Washington was brief, but we’ll be picking up the pieces for a long time. What Elon’s exit signals for the future of DOGE, and Musk’s political career.  Guest: Kate Conger, reporter for the New York Times covering X and other technology companies. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 1 June 2025

This week: Felix Salmon left Axios. He, Emily Peck and Elizabeth Spiers discuss the opaque language and politics around parting ways with an employer and the motivation behind giving severance packages. Then, it seems the threat of AI taking over jobs is becoming real as the hosts examine the role state of AI in tech and other industries and its effect on the job market. Finally, major stablecoin issuer Circle is going public. So what is a stablecoin and why do people want them? In the Slate Plus episode: Donald Trump’s Rococo Share Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Published: 31 May 2025

The end (of the Supreme Court term) is nigh. This week, Amicus goes into June Opinionpalooza mode with some meta-analysis of what to look out for as the Supreme Court delivers dozens of decisions over the next month or so. Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern say this is a term-ending unlike any other, partly because the number of cases pinging onto the high court’s shadow docket means the term may never really, truly, actually, end. And even when the shadow docket cases are decided, there is no real law that emerges, just a few lines of unsigned chicken scratch. Beyond the big merits cases concerning everything from birthright citizenship to healthcare for trans minors to racial gerrymandering to defunding Planned Parenthood, and beyond the brief, unbriefed, unargued emergency docket cases, the Supreme Court’s conservatives are in a power struggle with the very president they crowned quasi-king.  In a conversation recorded live on Friday at the WBUR Festival in Boston, Mark is joined by Professor Jed Shugerman of Boston University Law School, where they discuss the bad originalism and poor judgment that led to the Roberts’ court’s embrace of a little something called unitary executive theory that has become the Trump administration’s carte blanche.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Get Slate’s latest coverage of the courts and the law straight to your inbox. Delivered every Tuesday. https://slate.com/legalbrief Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 31 May 2025

The war between Ukraine and Russia is being fought increasingly via drone —and NATO and US military leadership is training troops for future conflicts that will pit man against machine. Guest: Jake Epstein, senior defense reporter for Business Insider. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 30 May 2025

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss this week’s Supreme Court decision that validates Trump’s firing of 2 officials without cause thus stealth-overruling a key check on presidents, the power dynamics around who benefits from Trump’s attempts to destroy Harvard, and the challenges and rewards of male friendship in modern life.  Here are this week’s chatters:   Emily: Emily Davies for The Washington Post: Trump’s clemency spree extends to ex-gangster, artist, former congressmen; Aaron Blake for CNN: ‘No MAGA left behind’: Trump’s pardons get even more political   John: Jason DeParle for The New York Times: How a Generation’s Struggle Led to a Record Surge in Homelessness; Malu Cursino for the BBC: Ancient human fingerprint suggests Neanderthals made art; Cara Tabachnick for CBS News: Last living grandson of 10th U.S. President John Tyler, a link to a bygone era, dies at 96; the Miller Center at the University of Virginia: President John Tyler (1790-1862); Sherwood Forest: More About Sherwood Forest and John Tyler.   David: Sarah Zhang for The Atlantic: The ‘Man Eater’ Screwworm Is Coming   Listener chatter from Jody Litvak in Los Angeles: The Stamp Thief (trailer video 1:58)   For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss WilmerHale’s court win this week, in which Judge Leon struck down the president’s politically-motivated executive order against the law firm as unconstitutional.   In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Susan Dominus about her new book, The Family Dynamic: A Journey into the Mystery of Sibling Success.   Email your chatters, questions, and comments to [email protected]. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)   Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 29 May 2025

Adriana Smith was nine weeks pregnant when she was declared brain dead in February—far enough along that her fetus showed cardiac activity.  The hospital then refused to let her family decide whether or not they want to keep Smith on life support long enough for the fetus to be delivered. Guests:   Imani Gandy, Editor-at-Large for Rewire News Group, covering law and courts and co-host of the podcast “Boom! Lawyered.” Mary Ziegler, law professor at UC Davis, author of Personhood: The New Civil War Over Reproduction. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 29 May 2025

Everyone assumes the reason Gavin Newsom has had right-wingers like Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon on his podcast is to burnish his credentials for an imminent presidential run. But no podcast episode is going to make Republican voters forget that he’s a California Democrat. Guest: Marisa Lagos, political correspondent for KQED and co-host of the Political Breakdown podcast. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 28 May 2025

A Revlimid pill costs about 25 cents to make, and about a thousand dollars to buy—but it’s keeping him alive, so what choice does he have? Guest: David Armstrong, investigates healthcare at ProPublica, author of “The Price of Remission.” Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Isabel Angell, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcribed - Published: 27 May 2025