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I'm John Batchel with Gordon Chang and Charles Burton.

Charles is the author of The Beaver and the Dragon, and Gordon, of course, is my long-time friend and colleague.

And I call upon Gordon to help me understand something that may be happening.

Charles mentions that Mr. Carney and the government in Ottawa has the support, the talking support of

the editorial pages and the people of Canada to turn to alternatives to the United States because

of the conduct of Mr. Trump, which is at least, you could say it's untrustworthy, this last year

since Liberation Day. Now, I have read this

elsewhere, Gordon, in Europe, although there it's all entangled with NATO and EU and a long-time

standing special relationship with Britain. Everybody, individually, they're all saying the same

thing. We have to find all saying the same thing.

We have to find alternatives to the United States.

We can no longer count on it for defense, for trade, for transparency, even for truth-telling.

Does China benefit from this, Gordon, because the statement is made, China now demonstrates its willingness to do business, even though you assume that it's a dictatorship.

Yes, China is benefiting a lot from this. And as Charles just mentioned, it is puzzling. But clearly, people hate Trump. And Trump, you know, indulges them.

So this is a very bad story for the Western Alliance.

...