This is John Batchel, conversation with Mary Kissel, Executive Vice President Stevens,

Incorporated, but many years with the State Department, with Mike Pompeo as senior advisor,

assessing the situation in Venezuela and what is to be done, the networking, the investment,

the years ahead, what is to be done.

Of note here, Mary talks about how the opposition in Venezuela very shrewdly has met with the Pope

most recently, and that this is a welcome turn for the Vatican and for the opposition.

But in Caracas, the thugs that were there before

are still there, as Mary says, very little has changed. And there must be big change for the

investment class to come back in and rebuild those oil fields. Here's Mary on the expectation and the fact. More of this tonight.

Well, very little has changed other than the removal of Maduro and his wife. The president

held a press conference with U.S. energy executives last week, and they were very frank, particularly Exxon, saying the country's

uninvestable. It doesn't have a rule of law and it doesn't have security. And until those things

can be established and demonstrated over time, you're not going to see a lot of investment come

in from either American players or Spanish players or others.

You know, Rubio, as I mentioned, has been on the phone with the Spaniards.

That's because they also have energy interests in Venezuela through Reps-All, and because, you know,

they have a history with the regime, and he needs their support.

I want to mention one other factor here, John, which is the Vatican.

Opposition leader Maria Karina Machado met with Pope Leo in these last days, which was very interesting.

The Vatican has not really been on the side of freedom in Venezuela, Cuba, or elsewhere under

prior popes. After Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict, Pope Francis was really kind of on the

side of the communists. And so it is interesting to see the Vatican exerting some moral

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