I'm John Batchew with my longtime excellent colleague Charles Burton.

He has a new book, The Beaver and the Dragon,

how China outmaneuvered Canada's diplomacy, security, and sovereignty.

We begin with a thriller scene of Charles being interrogated all night long by three state security

officers, we'll call them.

And then he escapes China and hasn't been back since.

That was August of 2018.

The book, however, that I'm looking at right now is a collection of Charles's thoughts stretching,

I believe the first column is 2011 under Mr. Harper's government,

and the last column I read is 2025 under the new government or Mr. Carney,

or as Carney inherits the Liberal Party from Mr. Trudeau.

So the essays take us through the trade embassies by Mr. Harper to China and Mr. Trudeau to China.

We're waiting for the embassy of Mr. Carney to China.

The trade was what Canada wanted to talk about.

China, of course, wants to talk about supremacy.

So we go immediately to Mr. Harper, 2006, 2015, Prime Minister.

Charles, I always get the sense when reading backwards that if they'd known then what we know now,

there would have been different decisions.

Is there any reflection now by the Harper government or Mr. Harper himself that he was misled,

that he was too pleasant and too optimistic about China at the time?

I haven't seen that kind of confessional reflection on what they did.

And, of course, a lot of the people who have been involved in Canada, China relations,

...