S8 Ep131: 1/4 Author Charles Burton Recounts MSS Interrogation; Details Canada's Decade of Failing to Counter Chinese Malign Activity — Charles Burton — Burton recounts his 2018 interrogation by China's Ministry of State Securityregarding his academic research on

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

News, Books, Society & Culture, Arts

4.6 • 2.7K Ratings

🗓️ 27 November 2025

⏱️ 11 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

1/4 Author Charles Burton Recounts MSS Interrogation; Details Canada's Decade of Failing to Counter Chinese Malign Activity — Charles Burton — Burton recounts his 2018 interrogation by China's Ministry of State Securityregarding his academic research on Chinese political democratization. He asserts that successive Canadian governments have consistently failed to challenge Beijing's malign operations. Burton cites slow responses to Huawei 5G concerns, government secrecy surrounding the Wuhan-Winnipeg laboratory connections during COVID-19, and current resistance to subsidized BYD electric vehicles, which function as surveillance and data collection tools.

Transcript

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0:00.0	This is CBS Eye on the World.
0:08.5	Here's John Batchelor.
0:11.9	This is CBS, I on the World.
0:14.6	I'm John Batchelor.
0:15.7	It is August, 2018, Shanghai.
0:19.4	We're in a hotel room in Shanghai, and our colleague, Charles Burton, author of a book,
0:27.2	The Beaver and the Dragon, Just Out, How China Outmaneuvered Canada's Diplomacy, Security, and
0:32.8	sovereignty, is sitting in a conversation with a member of the People's Republic of China's state security.
0:40.6	Standing behind the state security officer is another silently watching the conversation that's been going on all night.
0:48.2	Outside the door is a third officer.
0:51.6	Charles understands at the time that his answers are critical for him to leave this room
0:57.0	a free man. However, Charles, a very good evening to you. Congratulations for your new book. I had no
1:04.5	idea would start with this kind of tension, but there it is. You've been 30 days in Shanghai, a place that you've been many times before.
1:13.5	I think you estimated 70 times you've been to Beijing.
1:17.3	You've studied in China. You studied as a young man.
1:20.5	You have many Chinese friends. You were over there visiting some of your classmates.
1:25.6	And then these three men, state security, showed up at your hotel room
1:29.7	after a day in which you'd been moving around saying goodbye to people. What they want to know,
1:35.8	though, is the most mysterious of all. You're an intellectual. You speak Mandarin. You're studied in
1:42.1	Chinese lore and law and history. You have a PhD. You've been
1:48.0	part of your government. All of those things are in place. And yet, they want to know about a dead man
1:53.8	who once upon a time was your teacher. Why? Who are they? What are they after, Charles? Good evening to you.
	...

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