I'm Ryan Evans the editor-in-chief of War on the Rocks and the publisher of the Texas National

Security Review.

Welcome to the second episode of Horns of a Delema, our new podcast series with the University of Texas

featuring the brilliant leaders and thinkers at UT as well as those who stop in to share their wisdom.

This episode features a conversation between William and Bowden, the director of the Clement Center and

editor-in-chief of the Texas National Security Review, and Mark Up to Grove, President and Chief Executive of

the LBJ Foundation, and author of the new book, The Last Republicans, Inside the Extraordinary

relationship between George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

This event was co-sponsored by the Clement Center and the Strouse Center down at UT.

Enjoy the show and don't forget to subscribe to the horns of a dilemma feed. Speaking of our speaker today and teeing this up, many of us here knew Harry Middleton who unfortunately passed away last year.

We just passed the one year anniversary of his desk.

He died last year on January 20th, 2017.

He was a legendary first director of the LBJ Presidential Library,

and he really became the Dean of Presidential Library Directors in the 20th century.

A legend, he set the standard for Presidential library directors across the system of presidential libraries across this country.

So he's much missed. But if Harry set the standard for being a presidential library director in the 20th century

Our speaker today set the standard for being a a presidential library director in the 20th century.

Our speaker today set the standard

for being a presidential library director

in the 21st century.

So Mark Up to Grove's visionary leadership

and innovative programming really became an intellectual

...