Welcome to Nobody Told Me. I'm Jan Black.

And I'm Laura Owens.

And on this episode, we are thrilled to welcome back bestselling author Gretchen Rubin to our show. She is one of

today's most influential and thought-provoking observers of happiness and human nature. In her books,

Gretchen shares insights, strategies, stories, and tips that help people understand themselves and create a

happier life. Her latest book is called Outer Order, Inner Calm, Declutter, and Organized to Make More

More Room for Happiness.

Gretchen, thank you so much for joining us again.

We're so excited to have you back.

Oh, I'm so happy to be talking to you.

Talk to us a little bit about what motivated you to write this new book.

Well, I've been writing and talking to

people for years about happiness, good habits, human nature, and I noticed that whenever the

subject of decluttering or organizing or anything related to outer order came up, people just got

very fired up. There was just a special energy and excitement around

these issues. Even something as simple as make your bed, it just seemed to make people feel,

they just seem really passionate about it. And I have my secrets of adulthood, which are the

little pieces of wisdom that I feel like I've gained through time and experience.

And one of my secrets of adulthood is that for most people, outer order contributes to inner calm.

And people just kept saying that back to me, though, like it really struck a chord with them.

And I thought, well, I really want to understand why is it that outer order contributes to intercalm?

And how do you get it and how do you keep it? And why is there this connection? So how does outer order contributes to intercalm and how do you get it and how do you keep it and and why is there

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