This is CBSI on the world. I'm John Batchel. I welcome Cliff May, my colleague. He's founder and president of the Foundation for Defensive Democracies, writing about the Gaza conflict, the ceasefire, and Hamas. Cliff, a very good evening to you. There are quotes in your new piece at the Washington Times

that are hard to believe at first reading.

DeMas believes, not only believes, maintains and is boasting that it defeated Israel.

Can you explain this where this comes from and what it means?

Good evening, Cliff.

Good evening.

It's particularly interesting because the pro-Hamas factions on campuses and in international organizations from Amnesty International to UN Rights Watch to the UN have been saying for months and months and months that the people of Gaza are victims,

victims of genocide. They're starving to death. They're freezing in the cold. It's terrible.

And now, as soon as there's a ceasefire, guess what? They're out in the streets. They're well fed.

They're well dressed. They have cell phones. They have cameras.

And they're saying, we're victors.

We're victors.

Now, it's particularly Hamas that's saying that.

And they're supporters.

There may be people who are, you know, who have suffered and who will not come out and celebrate because people have suffered.

Because one of the things that's not understood and it's not understood by some people in rather high places in the U.S.

is what Gaza was like before October 7, 2023.

On October 6, Gaza was not an open-air prison.

You can read the op-ed by the mayor of Gaza City talking about the libraries, the zoos, the restaurants on the beach, the cultural centers,

huge amounts of money poured in from the international donor community, so-called,

and UN employees, thousands of them, made sure that all the social services were taken care of, all education was accredited by the Muslim Brotherhood.

And that left Hamas preach to do its mission, its mission being to plan a pogrom, a massacre, mass rapes in Israel.

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