Douglass's Dilemma: Measuring Lincoln (Lucas Morel Part 2)

Karen Hunter Is Awesome!

Women's Empowerment Network

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5.0 • 687 Ratings

🗓️ 17 December 2025

⏱️ 17 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Part two of Karen Hunter's indispensable conversation with the Lucas Morel - co-author of "Measuring the Man" - concludes the deep dive into Frederick Douglass's complex, evolving relationship and critique of Abraham Lincoln, examining their shared and diverging paths during a pivotal time in American history.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to Karen Hunter is awesome. I am Karen Hunter. Will the United States survive? Will this
0:15.6	country become a more perfect union? Are we up for the task? Well, we had this conversation with
0:22.5	Professor Lucas E. Morrell. He has a new book called Measuring the Man, the writings of Frederick
0:27.4	Douglas on Abraham Lincoln, and we broached this topic because I don't have the answer. I don't think
0:32.1	he does either, but it's something we should be pondering as we head into 250th anniversary
0:37.4	of the founding of this country.
0:39.3	Mm.
0:40.0	Will we get there?
0:41.6	Well, stay tuned.
0:42.9	We're talking with Professor Lucas E. Morrell.
0:45.3	He and Jonathan W. White edited measuring the man, the writings of Frederick Douglass on Abraham Lincoln.
0:50.8	How do we use these words?
0:53.0	And Frederick Douglass, my favorite is what to the
0:56.2	enslaved I'm using today's words. It's the fourth of July. You got it. Yeah. I love, oh my, it's excoriating
1:02.5	to this country. The hypocrisy that you sit in every day is wild to me. But how do we take this,
1:08.8	these words and create the world that we need right now?
1:14.4	I'm not as optimistic that is possible because I'm seeing people so entrenched in nonsense
1:21.6	and things that make no sense at all that's not factual, that's not historical.
1:27.0	It's just their feelings, and they feel
1:29.5	so small that this gives them something to hold on to, as opposed to working on themselves
1:34.8	as people and be better. Right, right. Well, the fact that you've got a radio show shows me,
1:41.7	you're more optimistic than you are admitting.
	...

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