Welcome to Karen Hunter is awesome. I am Karen Hunter and you know I'm doing my scroll on the

internet, mostly on IG and I came across Ben and Jamisa. Ben and Jamisa Motley. Actually,

you can go to Ben and Jamisa, J-A-M-E-S-A.com,

to find out everything you need to know about these two. But they were so intriguing that I wanted

to invite them on to talk about race and how they're navigating this current climate and how they

even got together in the first place. So up next is my interview with

Ben and Jamisa. The Ben and Jamisa podcast is where you can also find them. Stay tuned.

White people are so triggered by Black Joy because they have zero control over it. And white people

are all about control. And anything they don't get to control and manage and dictate freaks them the hell out

they don't get to be the leader ah that is the voice of ben and jamesa ben and jemisa

ben and jemisa motley let me welcome ben and jemisa dot com to the karen hunter show hello

jimisa ma hi hey hey hey hey hey. So I'm going to start with Ben. All of the applause, all the

applause. What do you know about Black Joy and White Power?

So my journey kind of got started working with sociopaths and sex offenders and domestic violence offenders and learning about what happens to an individual when they lose empathy and they focus on control instead of connection.

And then I started looking around me and looking at myself and being like, man, this is kind of the culture we steeped in.

Like this is how us white people are kind of raised.

And so the intersection between sociopathy and whiteness

wasn't so much a bend diagram as it was like a circle.

And I was kind of like, damn, like we need to do better.

We as white people need to start talking about this.

We need to have conversations about it.

And we need to start learning how to care more deeply.

...