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An Arm and a Leg

David v Goliath: How to beat a big hospital (using small claims court)

An Arm and a Leg

An Arm and a Leg

Society & Culture, Medicine, Health, Health & Fitness, Documentary

4.8 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 29 October 2020

⏱️ 23 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In a classic—and hilarious—David vs. Goliath story, Jeffrey Fox takes on a huge hospital over an outrageous bill, and wins.


He's a bit of an expert in using small claims court to get satisfaction, and he's got detailed instructions for all of us.


Here's his first lesson: The other side—no matter how big they are, and no matter what they say to you—doesn't actually get to make the rules. Not the LEGAL rules.


The details of how he got to victory in this case are super-entertaining, and super-satisfying.


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AND: During November and December 2020, your donation counts for DOUBLE, thanks to a campaign called NewsMatch. So cool. Just click here to give: https://armandalegshow.com/support/


Want more detail on this whole small-claims-court strategy? Got you covered:

  • Some folks have used just the threat of small claims court to get outrageous bills lowered. You'll hear all about it in our 2019 episode Can They Freaking DO That?!?: https://armandalegshow.com/episode/can-they-freaking-do-that/
  • Law professor Christopher Robertson describes some of the legal theory behind this approach in a Harvard Law School blog post: https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2017/10/03/medical-bills-are-open-price-contracts-a-victory-for-the-little-guy/
  • Jeffrey Fox posted documents from his case, and a brief narrative:http://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Writeup-1.pdf
  • Finally, here's this episode's transcript: https://armandalegshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Arm-and-a-Leg-Transcript-S4-Ep07-David-v-Goliath-Published-Oct-29-2020.pdf


Send your stories and questions: https://armandalegshow.com/contact/ or call 724 ARM-N-LEG



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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hey there, as we put this episode together, we're all less than a week from a big stressful election.

0:06.0

And meanwhile, the COVID pandemic is ramping up in kind of a scary way.

0:10.0

Wow. It may not be a bad time for a little bucking up and just a really fun story.

0:17.0

So this is possibly my favorite David versus Goliath story we've ever done.

0:24.2

Jeffrey Fox got an outrageous bill for a simple test

0:27.0

and he said to his wife,

0:28.3

no way am I paying this.

0:30.9

He went to small claims court, all by himself, no lawyer, fighting the University of California, which operates at UCLA Hospital, and he won.

0:39.0

Because the thing is, Small Claims Court is kind of his his home turf he's done this a bunch of times and he's beaten other Goliaths there

0:47.2

You know I sued Microsoft I've a lot of them related to my business and I won every single one of them.

0:53.0

And not just Goliats.

0:54.4

I sued a computer company for $65.

0:57.0

And I told him, I said, you're going to end up paying me $150 once the court costs are added. Now I didn't take a day to drive down to court for $65. I happen to actually have other cases there.

1:08.0

And for any given case, he says the actual money at stake isn't the main thing he's thinking long-term

1:14.4

the point is getting better at well at that standing up for himself I did it just for the

1:19.7

experience again and again soon company seeing how react, so that if the bigger cases come, I've got that much more experience.

1:27.5

Because every time you go into that court, you watch the other cases, you hear the judge say different things. you could say it's like how some people

1:34.0

do iron man triathlons or all their own home repairs whatever like there's an appetite

1:38.0

to rise to a challenge keep learning get a little stronger more self-sufficient

1:41.8

all the time.

1:42.6

Some people bake super elaborate pastries.

1:45.3

Jeffrey Fox defends his rights in small claims court.

...

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