You are listening to the War on the Rocks podcast on strategy, defense and foreign affairs.

My name is Ryan Evans.

I'm the editor-in-chief of Orin-The- Rocks.

In this episode, we talk about counterterrorism,

from the Bush administration to the Obama administration,

to the Trump administration.

Two great guests for this episode, we have Colin Call, now an associate professor

on the Security Studies program at the Georgetown School of Foreign Service.

He also most recently served as Vice President Biden's National Security Advisor, and earlier in the

Obama administration was the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Middle East.

We also had Stephen Tanchet.

Stephen is an assistant professor in the School of International Service at American University,

an adjunct senior fellow at the Center for New American Security,

and a senior editor at Warren the Rocks, most importantly.

He previously served as senior advisor for Asian Pacific Security Affairs at the Department of Defense.

He has a new book coming out later this year that I highly recommend,

with us and against us, America's partners in the

War on Terror.

In the middle of the episode, I also preview the new War on the Rock's membership, which we

launched this week.

Happy listening.

So Colin, let's go backwards to what January, February 2009. You had just entered the Obama

...