CONTINUED Nathaniel Peters, The Nature of Murder and Evil in Andrew Klavan's "The Kingdom of Cain" Nathaniel Peters reviews Andrew Klavan's "The Kingdom of Cain," which explores murder and evil through fiction and real-life examples. Klavan, a former ath
The John Batchelor Show
John Batchelor
4.5 • 2.8K Ratings
🗓️ 6 September 2025
⏱️ 7 minutes
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Summary
Nathaniel Peters reviews Andrew Klavan's "The Kingdom of Cain," which explores murder and evil through fiction and real-life examples. Klavan, a former atheist, was propelled to faith by pondering evil, suggesting that recognizing objective moral order is necessary to condemn acts like those of the Marquis de Sade. The book examines Leopold and Loeb, who murdered to prove their superiority and live beyond good and evil, but left a crucial clue, highlighting their human fallibility. Klavan also considers Dostoevsky's Raskolnikov, whose rationalized yet pointless murder leads to a breakdown of his self-deception. Klavan argues artistic creation, like Michelangelo's Pietà, can redeem or transform the subject of art.
Michelangelo's Pietà
Vatican City, Vatican City
A marble sculpture by Michelangelo depicting the Virgin Mary holding the body of Jesus Christ.
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| 0:31.4 | This is CBSI on the world. I'm John Batchel, spending time speculating about great literature with Nathaniel Peters of the Morningside Institute. Great fun Nathaniel. Returning me to all |
| 0:37.3 | those nights that I read |
| 0:38.9 | Ruskalnikov going, where's this going? What is he going to do? But we need to look at |
| 0:46.3 | Klaven's argument, not Rastafsky's. Michelangelo's Piet is important to him. This is |
| 0:52.8 | the mother mourning the death of her son laid out across her lap, |
| 0:57.1 | like the Virgin Mary and Jesus, |
| 0:59.5 | but all mothers mourning their children who have died before them. |
| 1:03.9 | What does Mr. Claven make of that? |
| 1:05.5 | Is that an answer to murder without conscience? |
| 1:10.3 | Well, Clavin argues that artistic creation is kind of the ultimate goal or fruition of love, |
| 1:19.3 | and that artistic creation can in some way transform or redeem the subject of art, |
| 1:26.1 | even if that subject is something as terrible as murder. |
| 1:29.7 | And the Pieta is his kind of ultimate example of this. So he writes, look at this marble |
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