It's the same thing with business, like you get a job, maybe you start freelance and get some clients on the side, and then from there you start to build out your agency if you want.

You can start to build out products if you want as well. You can keep leveling up to the point where you go build like a

networks effects business or like a space X. But you can take it as far as you want. You just got to

keep leveling up. You don't deserve to get to the next level until you beat this one. Oh, Welcome to the future podcast, a show that explores the interesting overlap between

creativity, business, and personal development.

I'm Greg Gunn.

Have you ever heard of the Game of Life?

It's a multiplayer board game that was invented by Milton Bradley in the 19th century. And the idea is to simulate a person going through all of their life experiences, school, college, marriage, jobs, and so on. And you the player get to decide what they do along the way.

Now the reason I ask is because today's guest lives his life as if it were a game

and it's no surprise that he's a big gamer. lives his life as if it were a game.

And it's no surprise that he's a big gamer.

But he's also an incredibly successful marketer

and businessman.

He runs a marketing agency, a software company,

and is the host of two podcasts that frankly put our download numbers to shame.

And the secret to his success, gamification.

Applying the concepts of leveling up to yourself and your business.

You see, everyone starts as a level one,

but how far you go in the game is up to you.

I wonder what level Elon Musk is. It's got to be like 9,000 something.

In this episode he and Chris go deep into marketing tactics from targeted

ad buys to good old SEO and everything in between.

...