I tried to be as messy as possible because I need to dismantle the perfectionist, right?

Like a sculptor works with clay and they're given the clay that they then are shaping and shaping.

But as a writer, we have to make our own clay, which is like the raw materials of the words.

So there's all kinds of ways that I work to dismantle my own

perfectionism so that I can get enough clay, then I can then begin to sculpt later in the editing

process. Hi, welcome to the podcast. My name is Katie, and this week I am speaking to one of my favorite authors ever.

Melissa Broder is here.

She's the author of several novels, including most recently Death Valley and then Milk Fed and the Pisces and the essay collection, So Sad Today.

And then five poetry collections, including Super Doom and

The Last Sext. Her books have been translated into over 10 languages. She's written for the New York

Times, L. Harper's Bazaar, Vice, New York Magazine, and many more. And she's here to talk to us. Can you believe it? I'm stoked. We talk a little bit about how we met many

years ago in New York and this, and I could have talked to her longer because I love her

and her work so much. And she was such a delight to speak with. But I did talk to her for quite a bit,

so I'm breaking this into two parts. So this week you'll hear the first part of our conversation

where we talked about wellness. She recently had written a piece, or it came out earlier this

year, about wellness and wellness culture

and capitalism and the intersection of it all. So we start by talking about that. We speak about her

writing process, mental health. We talk about sharing writing. We talk about limerence and long-term

relationships and being seen and witnessed.

And her books, we talk about So Sad Today and the Pisces and Malkfed a little bit in this.

And then in part two, we talk about Death Valley.

We talk about grief.

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