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The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast

Wounded Healers: 12-Steps from Jung

The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast

Pocket Psychiatry: A Carlat Podcast

Health & Fitness, Alternative Health, Medicine, Mental Health

4.7524 Ratings

🗓️ 29 December 2025

⏱️ 9 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

How a tip from Carl Jung inspired Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12-step recovery movement. 

CME: Take the CME Post-Test for this Episode

Published On: 12/29/2025

Duration: 08 minutes, 55 seconds

Chris Aiken, MD and Kellie Newsome, PMHNP have disclosed no relevant financial or other interests in any commercial companies pertaining to this educational activity.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Do you need to believe in a higher power to benefit from a 12-step program?

0:04.4

We trace this idea back to Carl Jung and find new research that gives solace to those with a more

0:09.7

secular worldview.

0:15.1

Welcome to the Carlyte Psychiatry Podcast, keeping psychiatry honest since 2003.

0:20.9

I'm Chris Aiken, the editor-in-chief of the Carlet Psychiatry Report.

0:24.6

And I'm Kelly Newsom, a psychiatric MP and a dedicated reader of every issue.

0:31.9

Last week, we rode on some fanciful ways, as we looked at the psychotic-like symptoms

0:37.0

and religious conflicts

0:38.3

that brought Carl Jung to believe in a collective unconscious that connects us all.

0:43.3

Freud couldn't stomach the idea, and it seems a bit far-fetch for our DSM world.

0:49.3

But here's how Yong used it in practice.

0:52.3

He believed these universal archetypes rose up to guide us through

0:55.2

the stressors that humans have faced for millennia. It's a collective guide for universal

1:00.2

struggles, things like danger, mating, war, birth and death, family conflict, and social disruption.

1:06.6

I suspect Jung would have been fascinated by the QAnon Shaman, who marched into the capital

1:11.4

riot with tattoos of Nordic gods, horns, and a bare-skin headdress. So when a patient came to

1:17.5

Young with one of those universal stresses, Young would help them uncover the archetypal material

1:22.6

that was waiting just beneath the surface, ready to guide them across the chasm. That's what Young did when

1:28.3

Roland Hazard came seeking help for his alcoholism in the late 1920s, lighting a spark that has

1:34.0

become a standard part of practice today.

1:44.0

Roland Hazard was born into a prominent Rhode Island family, whose various branches had played key roles in the American Revolution, the abolition of slavery, women's rights, and workers' rights.

1:56.6

Roland founded an industrial chemical company, but his personal life fell apart after repeated relapses into alcoholism that he could not control with medical intervention or moral conviction.

...

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