meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
Past Due with Ana Marie Cox and Open Mike Eagle

Why Your Brain Doesn't Want You to Change

Past Due with Ana Marie Cox and Open Mike Eagle

Ana Marie Cox, Open Mike Eagle, and Andrew Steven

Business, Performing Arts, Arts, Society & Culture

4.66.4K Ratings

🗓️ 22 May 2020

⏱️ 31 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What happens when someone tells you something that challenges a deeply held belief? On the surface, it may feel annoying or uncomfortable, but according to research from the University of Southern California by Jonas Kaplan and Sarah Gimbel, it’s more than that. When people are presented with information that runs contrary to what they already believe, “The response in the brain that we see is very similar to what would happen if, say, you were walking through the forest and came across a bear.”  On this episode, Kaplan joins the show to talk about this research, and how that instinctive, adverse reaction is the brain trying to protect itself — an attempt to keep your idea of yourself stable and whole. Oh, and Crooked Media fans should know: Kaplan and Gimbel figured this out by studying the stubborn brains of a bunch of liberals. Sources: Kaplan and Gimbel were guests on this episode of the You Are Not So Smart podcast (which was one of the inspirations for this whole season!). The paper about their study is here. The study on how even split-second decisions are hard to change gets a write-up here. Thanks to our sponsors! Ritual, the multivitamin, reinvented. Get 10% off during your first three months at ritual.com/FRIENDS Kiwico, the seriously fun subscription box for kids. Get YOUR FIRST MONTH FREE on select crates at kiwico.com/FRIENDS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hi, I'm Anna Marie Cox and welcome back to the second episode of with friends like these

0:10.4

Converts edition.

0:12.5

This season we're drilling down on a subject that has long fascinated me and I know it's

0:16.8

fascinated our audience.

0:18.9

What makes people stop believing one thing and start believing something else?

0:25.0

And frankly, is there anything outsiders can do about that process?

0:29.8

Our first few episodes have been laying out the bleak bad news about getting people to

0:35.3

change their minds, but it's also what makes Converts so fascinating.

0:40.7

Most people do not change their beliefs.

0:43.6

They in fact will do all sorts of logical and moral gymnastics to keep from changing their

0:50.3

beliefs, admitting they're wrong, basically.

0:54.0

And last week we talked to a social and psychological researcher about confirmation bias.

1:00.0

This week we're going deeper into the brain itself.

1:05.7

Jonas Kaplan is a cognitive neuroscientist at the University of Southern California's

1:10.6

Brain and Creativity Institute and we talked about politics, identity and how our emotional

1:17.3

reactions to evidence help determine what we believe to be true.

1:22.2

I have heard that feelings aren't facts, but Jonas says facts are feelings coming right

1:30.8

up.

1:31.8

Jonas Kaplan.

1:34.0

Jonas Kaplan, welcome to the show.

1:36.6

Thank you.

1:37.6

Glad to be here.

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ana Marie Cox, Open Mike Eagle, and Andrew Steven, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Ana Marie Cox, Open Mike Eagle, and Andrew Steven and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.