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Past Due with Ana Marie Cox and Open Mike Eagle

Why (Most) People Don’t Convert

Past Due with Ana Marie Cox and Open Mike Eagle

Ana Marie Cox, Open Mike Eagle, and Andrew Steven

Society & Culture, Business, Performing Arts, Arts

4.66.4K Ratings

🗓️ 15 May 2020

⏱️ 35 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Welcome to our first themed season, “With Friends Like These: Converts.” We’ve always been interested in why and how people change their minds about what they believe — mostly because it just doesn’t happen that often. Once we we make a choice about who we are or what we want to do, we start ignoring the evidence that might prove us wrong: that’s what “confirmation bias” is. Social psychologist Carol Tavris joins us to discuss the phenomenon, offer examples of it, and delve into the mystery of why some people seem capable of resisting the habit of rationalization and some people don’t. Further reading and sources: “Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me),” by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson Ezra Klein discusses confirmation bias and how the self-reinforcing effect of polarization this previous episode about his book, “Why We’re Polarized.” We discussed the ways we push each other into further and further away once we decide what we believe in this episode with Lilliana Mason, “When Ideology Is Identity”, about her book, “Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity.” One of the most influential accounts of extreme rationalization in action: “When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group the That Predicted the Destruction of the World,” which tells the story of a doomsday cult whose members’ certainty about their beliefs only increased after the apocalypse failed to occur. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, I'm Annamarie Cox and welcome back to With Friends Like These.

0:09.7

We're doing something new.

0:11.5

We're going to devote this entire season to converts and the conversion experience.

0:18.8

The individual stories, the phenomenon, the neurology, the history.

0:23.6

We'll be talking to scientists and former religious and political extremists and we'll

0:28.1

look at examples that come from cults and multi-level marketing and climate change.

0:33.6

Now, why are we doing this?

0:36.4

Well, with friends like these, it has always been interested in the ways that people change

0:40.3

their minds about things and why people believe what they believe.

0:45.7

We've all changed our minds about something, but have you ever changed your mind about something

0:52.2

big?

0:54.4

Because people don't.

0:56.0

Humans literally do not work that way and that's what makes converts and the conversion

1:00.9

experience so fascinating.

1:03.6

And our resistance to conversion is a great way to give context to the episodes to come,

1:09.5

which is why our first guest of the season is social psychologist Carol Tavris and she's

1:14.2

going to explain how the human brain is a perpetual self-justifying machine.

1:19.6

We would rather dilute ourselves than admit we're wrong.

1:22.2

We'd rather continue making the same mistake rather than change the way we do things.

1:28.0

Converts are rare and the conversion experience is a mystery.

1:33.8

Experts know how you set the stage for it, but what makes some people make that turn and

1:39.2

other people keep going in the same direction?

...

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