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The David Frum Show

Why America Isn’t Rome (And Why That Matters)

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.62.4K Ratings

🗓️ 27 August 2025

⏱️ ? minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with reflections on the misuse of history in today’s politics. He argues that fascism, once thought to have been buried by the Second World War, has reemerged in modern forms, thriving on the endless hunt for enemies, stoking culture wars, and exploiting new technologies. And he explains why the best antidotes remain liberty, equality, and sometimes humor. Then David is joined by Mary Beard, one of the world’s foremost scholars of Rome and author of the New York Times best seller Emperor of Rome, for a conversation about what the ancient world can teach us about current politics. They discuss how Roman emperors wielded power, why excess and corruption were baked into the system, and how fragile even the strongest-seeming regimes can be. Beard explains why myths about Roman grandeur persist, what daily life actually looked like under the empire, and what lessons modern democracies should (and should not) draw from Rome’s rise and fall. We've put together a short survey to learn more about our audience. It would be very helpful if you could take a few minutes to answer it at theatlantic.com/survey. As a thank you, the first 100 respondents will get a $20 gift card.  Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at ⁠TheAtlantic.com/Listener⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:05.1

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0:10.8

Get started for free at 11 Labs.io slash Atlantic.

0:15.0

Music Hello, and welcome back to the David From show.

0:29.8

I'm David From, a staff writer at the Atlantic.

0:33.2

Today's show will be about history, its use, and its misuse.

0:38.0

Now, that's not so unusual.

0:40.2

There's a lot of discussion of history in the podcast world, but this show is unusual in that my guest is not some self-taught crackpot, not some professor of chemistry somewhere who has some thoughts about Jews.

0:51.6

Today's guest will be Dame Mary Beard, who is Great Britain's leading

0:55.2

classicist and expert on the history of Rome and the ancient world. So you're going to be talking

0:59.7

to somebody or hearing from someone who knows what she's talking about. And that's a little

1:04.3

different from what often happens in discussions of history on the internet. Walter Lippman, a century

1:09.3

ago in his book on public opinion, wrote,

1:11.6

The really important thing is to try and make opinion increasingly responsible to the facts.

1:17.6

There can be no liberty for a community which lacks the information by which to detect lies.

1:23.9

Now, we live in a very peculiar, perverse, modern world where no one lacks information.

1:29.8

Information has never been more abundant. You can have all the information you want. You can

1:34.1

have good information if you want it. You can have the best information if you want it. You can

1:37.7

have not only everything that's available to you on the internet, but thanks to the internet and

1:41.6

thanks to the internet commerce, you can have books, the best books,

1:45.1

delivered to you instantly tomorrow and not just today's books, but the classic.

1:49.7

Anything that's out of print somewhere on planet Earth, it exists somewhere, and you can

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