The Fight for Truth

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 3 September 2025

⏱️ ? minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum discusses recent questions about President Donald Trump’s health and explores what a potential J. D. Vance presidency might mean for the country. He contrasts Trump’s impulsive, ego-driven style with Vance’s methodical, ideologically driven approach, examining how each wields power, pursues personal and political goals, and shapes domestic and foreign policy. Frum explains why understanding these differences is crucial for anticipating the challenges ahead. Then Frum is joined by Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the author of The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth. They discuss how societies decide what’s real, why disinformation has become a central political strategy, and living in a “reality-based community.” Rauch explains the dangers of the “fire hose of falsehood,” why authoritarian regimes weaponize confusion, and why, even amid today’s “machinery of lies,” reality still has the final word. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	11 Labs powers AI voices that don't sound like AI voices, like this one.
0:05.1	Eleven Labs voice agents are used to handle everything from customer support queries to appointment scheduling.
0:10.8	Get started for free at 11 Labs.io slash Atlantic.
0:15.0	Music Hello, and welcome back to the David Frum show.
0:29.7	I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.
0:32.7	My guest this week will be Jonathan Rauch of the Brookings Institution and the Atlantic,
0:37.1	and we'll be talking
0:38.0	about many things, but above all, about his landmark 2021 book, The Constitution of Knowledge.
0:44.2	Before I talk to Jonathan, I want to open with some preliminary remarks, but a shadowy future
0:50.0	ahead for the United States. I am recording this talk on the 1st of September of 2025,
0:56.4	Labor Day Monday. Now, rumor is rife this day that President Trump suffered some kind of
1:02.0	medical event over the weekend. I have, of course, no idea whether there is any basis for this
1:07.8	rumor, and I am not speculating about its truth or falsehood.
1:11.6	But here are some hard facts. When Donald Trump entered office in January 2025, he was five
1:17.5	months older than Joe Biden was when Joe Biden has started his presidency in January of 2021.
1:24.3	Watch any video of Trump, compare it to a video even from his first term when he was already past 70,
1:30.5	and you can see the evidence of time upon his body and mind.
1:35.4	Now, there are more than 40 months remaining in the present Trump term.
1:39.3	It's worth preparing now for what may lie ahead, preparing intellectually, I mean, for what may lie ahead,
1:45.5	and specifically for the ways that an administration might change, or this administration might
1:50.2	change if Vice President Vance inherited President Trump's office either before 2028 or after.
1:56.8	Now, I often use the following formula to describe the Donald Trump personality and the Donald Trump presidency.
	...

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