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Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Which Opinions Are Out of Bounds?

Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

New York Times Opinion

Journalism, New York Times, Ross Douthat, News, Society & Culture

4.07.2K Ratings

🗓️ 18 June 2020

⏱️ 38 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

After The New York Times published an Op-Ed by Republican Senator Tom Cotton which called for a military response to civic unrest, readers and employees alike were in an uproar. In the two weeks since our last episode, a debate about what makes an idea worth amplifying has taken place inside the paper. This week, Frank, Michelle and Ross disagree about the publishing of the Op-Ed, and debate where the lines should be drawn around ideas too abhorrent to be presented in the public discourse. Then, a conversation about the reckoning across industries at the executive level. Is this #MeToo, 2.0, or something different? For background reading on this episode, visit nytimes.com/theargument.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Michelle Goldberg.

0:02.0

I'm Frank Rooney.

0:04.0

I'm Ross Douthet, and this is the argument.

0:17.0

We'd like to start today's show with an apology to all of you who wrote or called in to ask

0:22.0

what happened to last week's episode.

0:24.0

The answer is that we took an unexpected week off,

0:27.0

and we apologize for not giving our listeners a heads up.

0:30.0

Here's what happened.

0:32.0

Our department, the opinion section of The New York Times, was in turmoil.

0:36.0

The cause was an op-ed that we published by Tom Cotton, a Republican senator from Arkansas.

0:42.0

It called for deploying the US military to end the riots and looting taking place in American cities around some of the Black Lives Matter protests.

0:52.0

Sometimes readers and sometimes reporters swiftly denounced the piece, arguing that it represented a tacit call for violence against protesters,

1:01.0

and that it endangered the lives of times reporters of color who were already at risk while covering the unrest.

1:08.0

In the wake of this controversy, the Times of Editorial Page Editor, James Bennett, our boss, resigned.

1:15.0

The paper published an editor's note on top of the original op-ed explaining that the essay fell short of our op-ed standards and shouldn't have gone out.

1:24.0

Because arguing is what we do, a number of op-ed writers have since weighed in, myself included.

1:31.0

I wrote a defense of publishing the piece, mistaken though I thought Cotton's argument was,

1:36.0

and a critique of what I see as the more activist direction that journalism and our paper seems to be taking in its coverage of American debates.

1:45.0

Today we're going to talk a little bit about the op-ed controversy, hopefully without too much New York Times naval gazing.

1:52.0

And then we'll talk about the debates, roiling our industry more generally, about objectivity versus truth,

1:58.0

about the press's duty to report multiple sides of a debate versus its duty to stand up for democratic values.

2:06.0

And then we'll also talk about the way the Black Lives Matter movement has inspired a reckoning with some of these questions,

...

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