I'm Michelle Goldberg.

I'm Ross Douthit.

I'm Frank Bruney, and this is the argument.

It has been a devastating week in America.

Tens of thousands of people have gathered in cities across the country to protest police brutality

against black Americans.

They're chanting the names of those recently killed by the police, George Floyd in Minneapolis,

Breonna Taylor in Louisville, Tony McDade in Tallahassee, and many, many, too many more.

And they're being met in some cities with violent reprisals from an increasingly militarized

police force.

The scenes flickering across our TVs and social media feeds are terrifying.

Tear gas, riot gear, looted stores, police vehicles on fire, people tearfully begging for justice.

Both Michelle and Ross, along with many other New York Times columnists and opinion writers,

have been covering these uprisings.

All three of us are white people who work in the media, with perspectives that are inevitably

somewhat blinkered.

And we're going to do our best to talk about the utility of protests and what has and

hasn't worked to affect lasting change.

Ross, the title of your column last weekend was the case against riots.

For people who haven't read that piece yet, or who need a refresher, what is the case against

riots?

And how does that apply now?

...