When Conservatives Fall for Demagogues

Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

New York Times Opinion

Journalism, New York Times, Ross Douthat, News, Society & Culture

4.0 • 7.2K Ratings

🗓️ 30 July 2020

⏱️ 51 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

How did the conservative defenders of classical liberal ideals like free speech and the rule of law wind up abetting authoritarians across the West? With Ross out for the week, Frank and Michelle are joined by Anne Applebaum, author of “Twilight of Democracy: The Seductive Lure of Authoritarianism,” to debate the origins of the center right’s schism over nationalism. Then, if you’ve got consternation over cancel culture, Michelle has “The Joke” for you. For background reading on this episode, visit nytimes.com/theargument.

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm Frank Bruney.
0:01.6	I'm Michelle Goldberg.
0:03.6	And this is the Archimit.
0:05.0	[♪ INTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪
0:08.4	Today, our guest is writer and historian Ann Applebaum.
0:11.9	We'll talk about how authoritarianism
0:13.8	became so appealing to conservative thinkers
0:16.0	in the 21st century.
0:17.5	[♪ INTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪
0:21.5	Ann Applebaum's latest book is Twilight of Democracy,
0:24.7	the seductive lore of authoritarianism.
0:27.5	It's part memoir, part history.
0:29.6	The story of people she once called friends,
0:32.1	anti-communist intellectuals and conservative defenders
0:35.1	of liberal ideals,
0:36.8	who during the Cold War fought for things like an independent press
0:39.7	in a free market.
0:41.5	In recent years, these same friends have become foot soldiers
0:44.9	in the rise of nationalism and authoritarianism in the West.
0:49.4	I read the book and found it utterly fascinating,
0:52.0	even though I disagreed with a big part of Applebaum's premise.
0:55.6	As I wrote in a recent column,
	...

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