What Would Relations with Post-War Russia Look Like?
War on the Rocks
War on the Rocks
4.6 • 1.1K Ratings
🗓️ 28 May 2026
⏱️ 28 minutes
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Summary
Rose Gottemoeller joined Ryan in Washington. They discussed how the West might think about relations with Russia once the war with Ukraine ends, as well as nuclear diplomacy and other critical issues. Gottemoeller was the deputy secretary general of NATO and, before that, served as a senior State Department official. She is currently at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University and has a new book out called Security Through Cooperation: Space, Nuclear Weapons, and US-Russia Relations after the Cold War (Stanford University Press).
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | You are listening to the War on the Rocks podcast on Strategy, Defense, and Foreign Affairs. |
| 0:15.7 | My name is Ryan Evans. I'm the founder of Warren the Rocks. |
| 0:18.4 | In this episode, I spoke to Rose Gautomuller, a seasoned American |
| 0:21.3 | diplomat who was Deputy Secretary General of NATO a few years ago under Secretary General |
| 0:26.4 | Jen Stoldenberg. Before that, she was the Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International |
| 0:30.7 | Security, a very well-regarded scholar and longtime national security hand. She's also the author |
| 0:36.4 | of Security Through Cooperation, Space Nuclear Weapons, and U.S. Russia relations after and longtime national security hand. She's also the author of security through cooperation, |
| 0:39.0 | space nuclear weapons, and U.S. Russia relations after the Cold War, which I highly |
| 0:42.8 | encourage you to pick up. Enjoy the show. So Secretary of State and National Security Advisor, |
| 0:49.3 | Marco Rubio, recently announced that the United States government was out of the business |
| 0:53.3 | of trying to negotiate between Ukraine and Russia, which I think provides us a good moment to reflect on |
| 0:57.6 | where we are in the war, but also where we are in our own relationship with Russia, which |
| 1:01.3 | is I know something you think quite a lot about. Yes, it's interesting to me that Rubio had that |
| 1:07.3 | to say. I do think it's possible once President Trump gains some progress in his |
| 1:13.0 | solution, whatever it is, over Iran, that he will want to get back to this negotiation. |
| 1:18.7 | It was the other shiny object that he declared he wanted to achieve during his time running for |
| 1:24.8 | office. But if he does not return to Ukraine and instead moves to another |
| 1:31.5 | adventure, for example, in Cuba, then I do think that the Europeans will have to take over |
| 1:37.4 | some role as they are looking to take over a role in the defense of Europe as well. In that |
| 1:43.4 | case, the big and important step |
| 1:46.1 | will be not to return to what we saw between 2014 and 2022. That is the Minsk process, where the |
| 1:53.3 | Europeans utterly failed to achieve successful negotiating momentum with the Russians and the Ukrainians. |
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