You have guys in the ministry who are unqualified and guys in the ministry who are unaccountable,

and they are given so much power and so much notoriety that it feeds the flesh.

Pastors rarely surround themselves with people who would be honest with them.

They surround themselves with people who will help them

get to the goals. Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week

for thoughtful interviews about the Bible, theology, church history, and the Christian life.

I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with John McArthur. John has served as the pastor-teacher

of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, since

1969.

He's also the president of the Master's University and Seminary, and is known around the world

for preaching through the Bible verse by verse on his daily radio program, Grace to You.

He's written or edited nearly 400 books and study guides, including remaining

faithful in ministry, nine essential convictions for every pastor of Crossway. Today, John and I discuss

what it takes to persevere as a pastor. He reflects on why it seems like pastoral failure and

burnout are more common than ever, why pastors should avoid

yes men at all costs, how a car accident helped confirm his call to ministry, and what he's

learned from over five decades at a single church. Let's get started. Well, Pastor McArthur,

thank you so much for joining me on the Crossway podcast today.

Well, it's a pleasure to be with you. It's been a wonderful partnership we've had through the years with Crossway folks, and we certainly believe in your mission.

So you first came to Grace Community Church in 1969, and that's 50 years ago. And you still serve there today. Do you remember the first sermon that

you preached from that pulpit and what text it was on? Yeah, it's a very vivid memory of mine.

I've been reminded of it many, many times through the years. I preached on Matthew chapter 7,

...