The abortion debate is not about who loves women and who hates women. It's not about choice. It's not about privacy. It's not about trusting women. It's not about back alley abortions. It's not about forcing one's religion. It's about one question. Are the unborn one of us? Who counts as one of us? That's the issue that's under a debate right now.

Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week for thoughtful

interviews about the Bible, theology, church history, and a Christian life. I'm Matt Tully, and today

I'm talking with Scott Klusendorf. Scott is the president of Life Training Institute, where he trains pro-life advocates to persuasively defend their views.

He's a regular guest on podcasts and radio shows around the country, and has debated or given lectures at over 80 colleges and universities, including Stanford, UCLA, Johns Hopkins, and MIT.

He's also the author of The Case for Life,

equipping Christians to engage the culture with Crossway.

Today, Scott and I discuss abortion and the current state of the pro-life movement.

He highlights the biggest mistakes that pro-life people tend to make

when discussing abortion,

explains why he believes pictures of aborted children are important to see and responds to some of the

most common pro-choice arguments and slogans. Let's get started. Scott Klusendorf, thank you so much

for joining us today on the Crossway podcast.

Matt, great to be with you.

So just the other day, Planned Parenthood tweeted out a statement that I would love to hear your response to.

They wrote, quote, if we don't control our bodies, we can't be free and we can't be equal.

What would you say to that?

Well, that's such an interesting statement, Matt. And what's interesting about it is it's basically sexist because what it says to women is you can't achieve equality with men unless

you get a special surgery that will make you equal with men. Now, I think the

Christian worldview has a much better answer. Men and women complement one another. They are equal.

They equally bear the image of God, thus they have equal intrinsic dignity, where Planned Parenthood's answer to that question is you can't achieve equality unless you get a special surgery, abortion, to have that equality.

I like our worldview better.

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