What Happens When We Don’t Believe the President’s Oath?

The Lawfare Podcast

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 4 March 2017

⏱️ 63 minutes

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Summary

Yesterday, Just Security and the Center on Law and Security at New York University School of Law hosted Benjamin Wittes for a conversation on a question he and I have posed about the path of the Trump presidency so far: what happens when we can’t take the president’s oath of office seriously?

Ben’s talk focused on an essay by him and myself that went up on Lawfare simultaneously, in which we argued that the presidential oath—little discussed though it may be in constitutional jurisprudence and academic literature—is actually the glue that holds together many of our assumptions about how government functions. And when large enough numbers of people cause to doubt the sincerity of the president’s oath, those assumptions begin to crumble.

Many thanks to Ryan Goodman of Just Security and Zachary Goldman of the Center on Law and Security for putting together this event. Make sure to also read Ryan’s Just Security followup post on his post-talk discussion with Ben and the questions raised by our essay.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.5	To access an ad-free version of the LawFair podcast, become a material supporter of LawFair
0:11.2	at patreon.com slash lawfair.
0:14.7	That's patreon.com slash lawfair.
0:18.3	Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, lawfair
0:25.6	no bull and the aftermath.
0:33.8	Why am I not willing to give Donald Trump a presumption of regularity in all kinds of areas
0:40.0	where I have normal presidents?
0:42.3	The answer is, because I don't believe he is one.
0:45.3	I don't believe his oath is meaningful.
0:49.2	And that actually affects the entire way you interact with the presidency.
0:55.3	And I want to suggest that a huge amount of the turmoil that we've seen over the last
0:59.2	five weeks is a function of the fact that my reaction isn't remotely unusual.
1:05.8	And that in fact that doubt about Trump's oath is what's driving the astonishing judicial
1:12.5	reaction, the amazing flurry of leaks that we've seen from his own bureaucracy, and the
1:19.5	absolute glee with which the press has reported on and ridiculed and identified misstatements
1:27.8	and policy foibles and actions on the part of the government.
1:32.1	I'm Quinted Jurassic, and this is the LawFair podcast, March 4th, 2017.
1:38.7	Yesterday, just security and the center-on-law and security at New York University School of
1:43.8	Law hosted Benjamin Woodis for a conversation on a crucially important question about the
1:48.5	path of the Trump presidency so far.
1:51.6	What happens when we can't take the president's oath of office seriously?
	...

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