What Happens When AIs Learn Politics and Deception?
AI Pod by Wes Roth and Dylan Curious | Artificial Intelligence News and Interviews With Experts
Wes Roth and Dylan Curious
5.0 • 2 Ratings
🗓️ 23 October 2025
⏱️ 82 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In this episode of Dylan and Wes Interview, we dive deep into the intersection of AI, games, and alignment with Alex Duffy, CEO of Good Start Labs. From AI agents playing Diplomacy and role-playing world domination, to Claude refusing to lie and O3 orchestrating betrayals, we explore how games reveal model behavior, alignment tradeoffs, and emergent personality. Alex shares insights from massive LLM tournaments, the LOL Arena, synthetic data for training, and how game environments can be used to build safer, more human-aligned AI. If you’re into storytelling, agentic AI, or the future of training models—this one’s unmissable.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | AI and games have been intertwined for pretty much the whole history of machine learning and the whole history of programming. |
| 0:07.5 | Through play, we can see ourselves, our biases, weaknesses, and strengths more clearly. |
| 0:11.9 | Would you rather have a model that is constitutional or doesn't lie throughout and is honest in its endeavors, or do you want one to win? |
| 0:22.0 | I think that the role of a human and AI world is to define the goal and what's good and bad on route to that goal. |
| 0:27.7 | If you're getting a response that you don't want, it's not the model's fault. |
| 0:32.0 | It's yours for the context that you provided it. |
| 0:35.9 | Hey, Alex Duffy, CEO and co-founder of Goodstar Labs, working at the intersection of AI and games, |
| 0:41.9 | which is where I met you guys, excited to talk more about that today. |
| 0:44.6 | I've been in the AI space for like eight years, everything from robotics to drug discovery |
| 0:48.5 | to education and most recently leading AI training, consulting, and every. |
| 0:52.8 | So I'm excited to have a great conversation with you guys today after we met with that AI |
| 0:58.7 | and game side. |
| 0:59.4 | Thank you so much for joining us. |
| 1:01.2 | So I've been really excited to talk about the stuff because it is at the intersection |
| 1:04.6 | of gaming and AI. |
| 1:06.4 | It's such an exciting field. |
| 1:08.5 | I loved reading the write-up about all the LMs playing diplomacy. So I definitely |
| 1:14.2 | do want to ask some questions about that. It's just a fascinating thing to talk about. But just |
| 1:19.7 | really fast, if you can tell us a little bit about Every and how did you guys get into doing these |
| 1:26.4 | LM benchmarks, benchmarks LM testing? |
| 1:29.0 | Yeah, definitely. |
| 1:29.9 | So every is a little bit of a weird company. |
... |
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