This week has been pretty bleak for energy transitioners.

Prices are high in many parts of the world.

Tens of millions of homes in Spain and Portugal lost power at the end of April.

A lot of people will believe that we're going too fast.

We're halfway across the road.

Now, if you've ever seen anyone hesitate crossing a multi-lane highway,

that is a very dangerous thing to do.

The best thing is to get right across as quick as you can. I think this gets us to the really meaty part of our discussion, which is about how you go and fix the grid.

You can run a very high proportion of renewable grid, incredibly reliably, but you don't do it like you did the old ones.

Markets have got to move at the same speed as technology and engineering innovation. At some point you start saying, should we open up a debate

that involves the demand side as well as the supply side?

That's a real-life social science experiment

that you went off and conducted, right?

1.6 million households signed up.

All we had to do was text them saying,

tonight earn a little bit of money

by shifting your demand by an hour.

What we got was the equivalent of turning off all of the electricity in two major cities.

This message is different to a lot of the people who have talked about the renewable

transition over the last 10 or 15 years.

A number of the advocates are promoting it in a way that is very ideologically driven

that is probably not very persuasive,

...