Hi everyone, this is Yonit, and this is a special episode of Unholy. As the war between Israel and

Hamas enters its second month, it's clear that things will not be the same for Israelis and Jews

outside Israel. So Jonathan and I decided to do something a bit different, air out feelings,

angers, and frustrations that built up between the two of us.

This isn't a debate. This isn't about winning the argument. It is about two friends trying

to listen and understand, even when they disagree, even when it's difficult, and staying

friends. So, you and I, Yoni, have been doing this podcast for nearly three years.

And through that, I think we've got to know each other very, very well.

And one thing that I think listeners have reported back is they have spotted that the last three weeks have been difficult for them

and they thought for us. And, you know, it's been an observation that a few of our listeners

have made that is there a kind of, beyond just talking about these awful events, is there a kind

of tension between you and me? And because we talk a lot, even outside the

podcast, we both thought it might be an idea to at least address that and say, well, is there?

And if there is, what it might it be about? Because, and I don't think it's actually, you know,

even an over-reading of it, what you and I are sort of doing on this podcast is a conversation we always said from the beginning, that was only ever rarely happening. In other words, a real proper two-way conversation between the Israel and the Jewish diaspora, who have often talked at each other, but very rarely talked with each other.

We've been doing that for three years. It was pretty smooth sailing, relatively speaking.

But October, 2023, things in many, many ways, in all kinds of ways, much more serious than one

podcast, became incredibly hard for a people. And we're part of that. So we thought we would do something

a bit different. And in a way, it was your idea. So you might as well say something about the

very specific way you were conceiving of it. No, I mean, so much has changed, as you said,

on October 7th in both our worlds. And we spoke about it on the podcast, but some of it was unspoken.

And we kind of decided to air our differences between kind of our points of view.

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