The Bird Show.

You've seen this play out. What does it make you feel like as the owner of creator? Earlier, Tyra, you aired our two commercials and I firmly believed in a 30-second TV commercial. I'm not going to convince anybody to have an affair. That's a decision you come to based on your life circumstances. But I'm talking about them. When you watch this pain, this man's- How do you do you feel to be coming and kicking your ass right now?

Oh, boy.

That's how I feel right now. I feel like coming right up there knocking you out, bud. I feel a heart inside of you that you're trying to cover up right now. I have a heart. I know. I do. I feel it. I feel it. Of course. It's all about you, Tyra. Here is the president of AshleyMadison.com.

It's Noel Betterman.

Good morning. Morning. That was one of my finer moments for sure. I bet. I bet you can't hear that enough, right? Yeah, I get that gets replayed time and time again, but I guess it made for good TV. Do you get confronted by people within your own circle that know that you are the president and founder of this company? Like, dude, I mean, can't you make your money somewhere else? Do they say that to you? Well, before I started the business, listen, I had to check in with my then-fiance. I spoke to my parents, my brother, his wife, my friends, and in the end, you know, people judge me for my own personal life and understood that I was just pursuing what I believe to be an excellent business opportunity. And so, you know, I don't get any backlash in

my personal sphere of influence because I operate Ashley Madison.com. Are you married? Yeah,

happily married. Really? What does she think about the website, your wife? No, I think she thinks

the same thing I do. That in the end, you know, if someone strays in the workplace, it's going to end badly and someone's going to lose their job. Just look at, you know, the David Letterman situation is an extreme example. But, you know, or going on a single-stating site and pretending to be something you're not is unfair, that unsuspecting single. and clearly, is an escort or a prostitute is, you know, breaking the law. And the bottom line is, you know, we know people stray and they stray whether they're politicians, celebrities, athletes, or the guy next door or the woman, you know, in a cubicle next to you and happens. And so why not allow it to happen in a community of like-minded adults where everybody knows what they're getting into, and that's what Ashley Madison is. Let me just reiterate for those that are just hanging out today that this is a website. It's the world's number one married dating service, specifically for attached men and women, who are looking to have an extra marital affair, and there's over four and a half million members on this. Yeah, listen, we're the fastest-growing dating site in the world right now. And so I think that says a lot about society and where we're headed, but more importantly, what's in our DNA and how people behave. And it's easy to be judgmental. It's easy to sit there and say, oh, that person's wrong because they cheated. But we truthfully don't know what goes on behind closed doors. And what I do know is the vast majority of people, the 20 million Americans in sexless marriages, didn't sign up for that. That's not what they expected when they took their vows. And so I guess you have a choice in this world. You can be entirely selfish and put sex first and walk away from your relationship. But I think that's really harsh on your children, on your family, extended family,

or you can try an alternative.

And while that's painful to believe that infidelity is an alternative, it does work.

And it does work if you look at societies like France or Japan

that have really high infidelity rates but really low divorce rates.

And you can't help but wonder if they haven't figured something out that we haven't.

I have so many questions for you. Yeah, where do you start? I'm writing them all down as he's talking. I know. I want to just follow up in the France thing. Okay. Like, is infidelity accepted in France? Oh, absolutely. You know, the rates for men are close to 90% and the divorce rates are half of that what's in America. So what you really have is a de-emphasis on sex and monogamy. And basically you have people saying marriage has foundations, but sex is not one of them. It's about economics. It's about children. It's about, you know, extended family. And so by de-emphasizing the sexual component, they're saying, listen, we keep together the family side and marriage has a lot more to it. But we know people have dalliances, but it doesn't necessarily mean the end all and be all. And so all the research we know is that children really benefited from having two parents together in a family union. It doesn't have anything to do with what their sex lives are about. And so if we believe that's the important thing of, you know, the important foundation of marriage, then we really have to revisit it.

Is it something that you think in American culture can wrap their brain around, though? Well, it's a changing ebb right now. Back in the 60s and 70s, it was happening. We were changing the institution of marriage. We were de-emphasizing sex or at least liberalizing it. But it really stopped. It stopped in the 80s where there was a fear around sexually transmitted infection disease, you know, conservativeism, religious, you know,

return to religious roots, whatever the factors were, it really did stop. But it's changing, once again. I'm at the forefront of it. And like any good entrepreneur at the forefront of something,

it can often feel controversial. But I feel it. I see it with how my ads are now being adopted and run on places like CNN and on Fox and how many members I have joining the service. And if you look at younger generations who are happy to allow same-sex unions or supportive of open marriages or de-emphasizing religion, it's changing. It might take a couple of decades, it might take 30, 40 years,

but, you know, monogamy is probably on its last leg. The institution of marriage will not look the

same for our, you know, children and grandchildren as it does for us.

This is obviously not your first interview. You almost sound proud that you're a pioneer

of infidelity. Well, yeah, you just have to look back over time. So, you know, you have to have to go through a lot of loopholes and jump through a lot of hoops to publish a magazine that had, you know, pictorials of naked women. At the time, it was extremely controversial. Now it's just, it's so mundane. His magazine is probably going to cease to exist in the next couple of years. And so right now, it feels like I'm a really controversial character that I've created the most controversial website in the history of mankind, but that's only because, you know, we're sitting on these notions around monogamy and marriage that are probably very dated, and they just don't reflect the reality. And it won't feel that way in the future. So history will, will bear me out. But in the meantime, I'm making a good living and I accept that. And I'm, you know, I'm happy to have the discussion around matrimony and infidelity. And I personally have written a book, you know, called Cheaters Prosper, you know, how infidelity can save the modern marriage. And I've come to believe it. I've come to really believe that, you know, by letting people

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