In this quote-unquote advanced Western democracy, we have these people who are really falling through the cracks, except hopes this coronavirus pandemic will finally take Uber out once and for all.

I'm your host, Paris Marks, and today I'm speaking with Vina DuBall.

Vena is an associate professor of law at the University of California Hastings.

Her work focuses on the intersection of law technology and precarious work.

She's also written for the Los Angeles Times and The Guardian, among others.

Today we're speaking about how Uber misclassifies its workers and the long fight to

get employment recognition for Uber drivers. If you like our conversation, please leave us a five-star

review on Apple Podcasts. Make sure to share it on your social media and with any friends or

colleagues you think would be interested in our conversation. And if you want to support the

work that I put into making this podcast a reality, you can do that by going to patreon.com

slash paris marks and becoming a supporter. Thanks so much and enjoy the conversation.

Vina DuBal, welcome to Tech Won't Save Us. It's such a pleasure to join you on.

I wanted to start because you've obviously done so much work on Uber and how it classifies its drivers

and kind of the issues that arise with the classification of an independent contractor.

So I was hoping just, you know, as we start off this conversation, if you can explain why

it classifies workers that way, what the problem with that is, and how being classified as

an independent contractor really affects the workers and denies them of certain rights.

Uber, as you said, classifies their workers as independent contractors.

In the U.S. as elsewhere in the world, more so in the U.S. than elsewhere in the world,

but a lot of our social benefits and our safety nets come through work.

And specifically, they come through employment. And so the idea is,

if you work for another company, then that company has to provide you with a minimum wage. They have

...