Truth in an age of doublethink

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.6 • 10.8K Ratings

🗓️ 10 November 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

We use “Orwellian” to describe everything from campus dust-ups to authoritarian crackdowns. But what did George Orwell actually stand for, what did he get wrong, and what can we learn from him about our age of surveillance capitalism and distraction? Sean’s guest is Laura Beers, historian at American University and author of Orwell’s Ghosts: Wisdom and Warnings for the 21st Century. They dig into Orwell’s defense of truth over ideology, his crusade against euphemism, his experience with propaganda and persecution in Spain, and why 1984 and Animal Farm only capture part of his project. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Laura Beers, historian and author of Orwell’s Ghosts We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	If it's time for Black Friday at Dell Technologies.
0:02.7	Save big on PCs like the Dell 16 Plus featuring Intelcore Ultra Processors.
0:07.3	Shop now at Dell.com.
0:08.2	It's time for Black Friday at Dell Technologies.
0:12.8	Save big on PCs like the Dell 16 Plus featuring Intel Corps ultra processors.
0:17.5	Shop now at Dell.combeck forward slash Black Friday.
0:22.7	If I asked you to name a famous writer who manages to be both incredibly well-known
0:28.3	and universally misunderstood, who comes to mind?
0:35.6	Marks and Nietzsche are obvious candidates, but any list like this has to include George Orwell,
0:42.3	the English journalist and essayist and the author of two of the most famous political novels of the 20th century,
0:50.3	1984 and Animal Farm. Whether you've read any of Orwell's work or not, you know his name,
0:58.8	and you've no doubt heard the term Orwellian used to describe people and events that are very
1:04.4	likely contradictory, which of course is part of the problem with Orwell. He's been stretched so much that his name is now a floating signifier that conveys just enough information to the audience
1:17.6	to suggest something vaguely meaningful but not enough information to truly clarify anything.
1:23.6	But none of this is Orwell's fault.
1:26.6	And the irony is that Orwell's greatest virtue as a writer was his clarity.
1:32.8	He wrote so as not to be misunderstood.
1:35.8	And yet he is now perpetually misunderstood.
1:38.8	How did that happen?
1:40.6	And how should we understand him?
1:43.1	Who was George Orwell?
1:45.3	And why does he matter so much today?
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Vox Media Podcast Network, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Vox Media Podcast Network and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.