The case against free will

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

News, Politics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, News Commentary

4.6 • 10.8K Ratings

🗓️ 3 November 2025

⏱️ 64 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

We all think of ourselves as authors of our lives. The difference between our happy ending and someone else’s tragic one are the choices we each make. But what if none of that’s true? Sean’s guest today is Robert Sapolsky, a biologist and neuroscientist at Stanford University and author of Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will. They dig into Sapolsky’s claim that free will is an illusion and discuss what the science says about genes, stress, culture, and how all this research might reframe the way we think about meritocracy, blame, punishment, and even hatred. This episode originally aired in November of 2023. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Robert Sapolsky, biologist and neuroscientist at Stanford University and author of ⁠Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will⁠. We’d love to hear from you. Tell us what you thought of this episode by emailing [email protected] or leaving us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of ⁠The Gray Area on YouTube⁠. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: ⁠vox.com/members⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Support for this show comes from OnePassword. If you're an IT or security pro, managing devices,
0:08.3	identities, and applications can feel overwhelming and risky. Trellica by OnePassword helps
0:14.8	conquer SaaS sprawl and Shadow IT by discovering every app your team uses, managed or not.
0:21.5	Take the first step to better security for your team.
0:24.9	Learn more at OnePassword.com slash podcast offer.
0:29.7	That's OnePassword.com slash podcast offer, all lowercase. Support for this show comes from OnePassword.
0:41.3	If you're an IT or security pro, managing devices, identities, and applications can feel overwhelming and risky.
0:49.3	Trellica by OnePassword helps conquer SaaS sprawl and Shadow IT by discovering every app your
0:56.1	team uses, managed or not.
0:58.7	Take the first step to better security for your team.
1:02.1	Learn more at OnePassword.com slash podcast offer.
1:06.9	That's OnePassword.com slash podcast offer, all lowercase.
1:14.2	There are many ways to think about the history of humanity.
1:20.3	One of them is to say that humans have gradually lifted themselves out of ignorance
1:26.2	as we've learned more about ourselves and the natural world.
1:30.3	That's a little crude to be sure, but it's true enough.
1:34.3	Most of us don't believe in witchcraft anymore, and most of us don't believe that demons are the cause of diseases either.
1:43.3	But for a long, long time, these were
1:46.4	commonly held beliefs. That's progress. But that fact should prompt an obvious question.
1:57.7	When future humans look back on our time, what will they think? What do we believe
2:03.5	now that might, in retrospect, look absurd to them? I'm Sean Elling, and this is the gray area. Today's guest is Robert Sapolsky. He's a professor of biology and neurology at
2:31.6	Stanford, and the author of a monumental new book called Determined,
	...

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