Welcome to another edition of The Oath and the Office podcast starring Professor Corey Brett Schneider.

I am John Fuglesang, your humble co-host.

Let me introduce you now to the man, the myth, the Mac, Professor Corey Brezhneider, the man who classes up, the Polyside Department of Brown University. You've read his works in New York Times and Time magazine in MSNBC, and you must own his book, The Oath in the Office, a guide to the Constitution for future presidents. Professor Brechtner, it has been quite a week.

It's good to see you with you. Great to see you. There's a lot to talk about, a lot happening in the

news. And of course, a huge congratulations to you to making the New York Times bestseller list

for your amazing book, Separation of Church and Hate. And what an honor it was to do those

two episodes about it. So listeners, if you didn't hear Hate, and what an honor it was to do those two episodes about it.

So listeners, if you didn't hear them, go back and listen to. It wasn't true then, but it certainly

is true now. New York Times bestselling author, John Fugel Sange's interview on separation

of church and hate. I nabbed a bestseller for my interview, and I'm really thrilled. Thank you. I look forward to being completely insufferable, Professor. I'm going to make you, I'm going to have to be referred to as New York Times bestselling author, John Fugelstang forever, because I needed a way to make my last name more unwieldy and obnoxious. You, however, have a great piece in The Guardian this week that I'd like to

begin by talking about. Everybody should read this. We touched on some of these themes last week,

but your piece published in The Guardian is called Trump has forgotten his oath of office. History

will not remember him kindly. And you write in it that these presidents, they're not judged

by whether violence occurs on their watch.

You're right. They're judged by how they respond to it. Can you explain how that historical test has

played out? I mean, more recently, we can talk about George W. Bush and how he took violence and

used it to invade the wrong country and lead the best to financial ruin. But I want to ask about that

historical test from Lincoln's appeal to the better angels of our nature to Andrew Johnson's

disastrous failure of leadership. Yeah, I mean, part of the idea of the piece, and I should say

it really came from our conversations on this podcast last week, where we were talking about

how to think about violence historically,

and that really got me thinking and solidified into this piece. And part of the idea is to try to

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