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So... So welcome to The Untold Story.

I'm thrilled to be joined today by Tina Brown, author of the palace papers inside the House of Windsor, the Truth and the Turmoil.

Obviously, she wrote The Diana Chronicles and longtime editor of Vanity Fair and Tatler and the New Yorker, the Queen of Publishing, really. So it's great, wonderful to have you

with us. Thank you, Martha. So, you know, as we look forward to this Jubilee that's coming up

for the Queen, you write about the period after Diana's death. And for a moment, it looked like they were sort of turning things around in the royal family

and this very successful marriage of William and Kate.

And then things got a little bit more complicated.

And you say that at one point after Diana, the queen said, never again.

What did she mean by that? Right. That was the

Queen's mantra, you know, in those years post-1997 when Diana died in the car crash. She meant

we are never again going to have somebody in this family who becomes so celebrated, so

such a star outside the system, essentially, that they disrupt the system, that they become more of spotlight on them than the family itself, than the crown itself.

And that this would have been a disaster in terms of, you know, creating essentially a rival power base to the monarchy and couldn't happen again.

And for many years, they kind of dug themselves out of the Diana kind of scorched earth years,

you know, and worked and worked in a sense to become boring again,

because they wanted to be boring.

...