Welcome to Karen Hunter's awesome. I am Karen Hunter. And when I started my radio show in 2014, this guy was a frequent guest, particularly I did an entire month, double duty on two channels, and Tim would come in every week, Tim Wise,

and it's been 11 years. So I said, let me have him back on. Let me see what's changed. A lot

has changed, but then nothing's changed in this country, unfortunately. And his work of anti-racism

is still more important than ever. So up next is my recent interview and discussion with Tim Wise. I think

Sena Gazznavi is on. We took some callers as well. So stay tuned. I hope you enjoy. I want to

double down on the people who love people and everybody else y'all figure it out because it's

going to be Lord of the Flies out there real soon. And we're going to put a protective hedge around us, knock of you buck, leave us alone, and let's build the world that we want

to live in. That's where I am right now. I'm not here to save everybody. I get that. Well, and even

if you are, you can't. I mean, realistically, not anyone, you know, my youngest daughter called me the other night. She very, you know, she's a senior in college. She's very, you know, concerned, let's just say about the state of the world. And so she calls me when she's in that sort of spiraling mode of being worried. And she's like, you know, is it fascism yet? I'm like, well, you know, we're getting there, you know. And when trying to advise her how to live in the face of that, you know, as a father, my instinct, and it's not always the best instinct, is to try to have an answer. I think parents want to do that. I think it's very

natural. Parents want to like, oh, here's how we're going to solve the problem. But really what

young people need, what your kids need. And I've learned this slowly as a parent, right, is they don't

need you to necessarily have all the answers. They just need you to listen to their concerns and their

fears and take them

seriously and validate their feelings and then, you know, offer them a little bit of knowledge or a little bit of wisdom. And in my case, what I told her was, I said, listen, you know, you're 22. You're not supposed to have the answers. I don't. I'm your father. I don't have them. And I've been working on these things since long before you were born. So I don't have the answers. You don't have the answers what you can do, though.

In addition to staying up with what's going on and resisting where you can, you also have to surround

yourself with people that you love and who love you. And you have to find joy in the things that are going on in

your life that are meaningful in the face of all the nonsense that's happening. Because if you don't do

that, you're not going to be of any use to the movement for justice. Right. If you're if you're not

joyful, if you can't, if you don't have a circle of people around you who can hold you up when you're hurting and whom you can hold up when they're hurting, then you're not going to have the energy, the strength, the resolve to go out there and fight when it's time to fight, you know?

And so we have to find that balance. And it is really hard, right? For those of us who think about these awful things all the time,

and we talk about them and we try to resist them, trying to find space, carve out space to do

something that seems frivolous, streaming something on Netflix that we want to see,

...