Hey everybody, it's Prentice and welcome to Becoming the People.

Okay, I wanted to have Dean Spade on my podcast for literally years and years and years.

I've known Dean also for years,

and he's really, really, really authentically

one of the smartest, kindest, most insightful people

that you will ever meet.

There's just a generosity to the way that Dean interacts with everyone

that I've rarely seen in another person.

I get this sense with Dean that he can really see the complexity of the world.

Like, he really can see the way systems move and act on us and between us, and that he chooses to really value the one-on-one,

the interpersonal, the group dynamics with such attention and care, even while seeing all

of that complexity. He's gifted that way, honestly, very, very gifted that way.

Dean wrote a book a little while ago now, maybe a year or so or more called Love in a

fucked up world.

And it's a text that's relatable.

It's almost instructional.

It's like a companion piece that helps us look more closely at our relationships with each other,

romantic friendship, organizing relationships.

But it feels like Dean is holding this question of how can our relationships actually be

liberatory and how can they be places where we change and where we do our healing work because we're in this together and we're

going to have to be in this together.

In this episode, we talk about so much, but we talk about how each of us enter into

...