When you look behind the veil, you find that it's the same companies, it's the same firms.

Often it's the same people providing these services.

And nowhere is that clearer than, for example, with the role of Hill and Nolton.

Remember a couple weeks ago I said I'd found some new leads that were relevant to this season?

One of them was the guy you just heard talking there, Carol Muffet, who runs the Center

for International Environmental Law.

I already knew about Carol and his organization, of course, but what I didn't know was that

he had quite a bit of information and documentation that has never been published on the various

public relations firms that have worked with the fossil fuel industry.

And specifically with both the fossil fuel industry and tobacco.

Hill and Nolton, which is widely recognized as a lead advocate for the tobacco industry

and the tobacco wars, Hill and Nolton was simultaneously and from a very early stage also

actively representing an array of oil and gas companies on issues of concern to them.

And often the same account leads on the tobacco campaigns were also account leads for oil companies.

As we learned in earlier episodes this season, these two industries have a long history of influencing

each other and at the center of that influence are a few key spin masters.

There the guys were focusing on this season.

I'm Amy Westervalt and this is Drilled, season three, the madmen of climate denial.

Today we're going to dig into the story of John Hill, founder of Hill and Nolton.

John Hill was born on a farm in Indiana in 1890.

His grandfather had been wealthy but his father lost all the families money in a series of business deals gone wrong.

And Hill would spend the rest of his life chasing the company and approval of rich men.

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