Part of it is the problem with the tactical mentality that, like, you know, give me a wall and I'll run through it, which informs so much of the thinking and mentality of our small units.

That's a great way through a bar fight. It's even not a bad way through a fire fight.

It's not really a good way through a war.

Less than 1% of the country went to Afghanistan and Iraq.

If you do the numbers out, less than 10% of the population,

we're families of those people, are immediately affected and committed to the wars. Should we really be waging war with 10% of the population were families of those people and immediately affected and committed to the wars.

Should we really be waging war with 10% of the population involved or paying attention?

Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Modern War Institute podcast. I'm John Amble,

editorial director at MWI. And in this episode, MWI's major

Jake Moraldi talks to award-winning journalist and best-selling author, C.J. Chivers.

His newest book, The Fighters, takes on the task of telling the story of America's post-9-11

wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through the eyes of the men and women who fought them.

Before embarking on his career as a writer, Chivers was an infantry officer in the Marine Corps. That perspective comes through in his writing.

He set out to tell the story not strictly of the policymakers' war or even the general officer's war,

but of the lieutenant's war, the sergeant's war, and the soldiers' War. Before we get to the conversation, as always, just a couple quick notes. First, if you

aren't yet following MWI on social media, find us on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. It's a great

way to get in touch and give us feedback, which we love, and also to stay up to date on the new

articles, podcast episodes,

and research we're releasing every day. And lastly, of course, what you hear in this episode

are the views of the participants and don't represent those of West Point, the Army, or any other

agency of the U.S. government. All right, here's Jake Morale and C.J. Chivers.

Mr. Chivers, welcome.

...