That's what competition comes down to, getting them to say yes to us and our allies and no to our adversaries.

And right now I think we're struggling in that realm.

Culturally, I think we do have an issue we think of influence and information operations

as a supporting effort to our actual tactical and operational efforts

hey welcome back to the modern war institute podcast. I'm John Amble, editorial director at

MWI, and this episode features a conversation MWI's major Jake Moraldi had with Mark Mitchell.

From June to November 2019, he served as the acting assistant secretary of defense for

special operations and low-intensity conflict. Prior to that, he served for nearly three

decades in the army.

As a Special Forces officer, he was among the first U.S. forces in Afghanistan after the 9-11 attacks,

and later served in positions ranging from command of Fifth Special Forces Group to Director for Counterterrorism on the National Security Council.

In the conversation, he talks about how the role of special operations forces has evolved

over nearly 20 years of war and how he envisions SOF's role in the future.

He also describes some of the biggest challenges he sees in today's global operating environment

and the military's role not just in conflict, but in competition.

I hope you enjoy the episode, but first, just a couple quick notes.

For those listeners who have subscribed to the MWI podcast, thank you so much.

And for anyone who hasn't, you can find us on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast app.

And while you're there, please take just a moment and give the podcast a rating or leave a review.

And second, as always, what you hear in this episode are the views of the participants

and don't represent those of West Point, the Army, or any other agency of the U.S. government.

All right, here's Jake Morald we have Mark Mitchell, who is the former Assistant Secretary of Defense

...