The State of the Union is not only the biggest night of the year for the President, it's also a big night for any First Lady. Over time, her role to State of the Union has become institutionalized.

The cameras pan to her when she enters the House chamber. She sits high in the audience

surrounded by special guests who the president's team has carefully selected to highlight various

political messages.

And she inevitably gets a heartfelt shout out from the president,

followed by something rare at a State of the Union these days,

a bipartisan standing ovation.

The first lady's ceremonial role at the speech is emblematic of their role in America.

You see them a lot, but you don't hear from them all that much.

Which is too bad because the First Lady is often one of the most influential and therefore

one of the most powerful people in the White House. Jill Biden is no exception.

Joe Biden's inner circle is as much Jill's domain as it is his.

So she's really a gatekeeper or the people who are closest to him, even though she's not in the West Wing.

She's not stationed there or anything holding open the door to the Oval.

But she definitely knows everything that's going on.

New York Times reporter, Katie Rogers, has been studying Jill Biden,

Malanya Trump, and their recent predecessors for years.

And her new book is American woman,

the transformation of the modern First Lady

from Hillary Clinton to Jill Biden.

In our conversation, we covered everything from their roles in staffing, campaigning, and policy decisions,

to Malanya and Donald's pre-nup, to whether or not Jill has ever forgiven Kamla Harris for what she said about Joe in 2020.

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