This is In Conversation from Apple News.

I'm Sam Sanders and for Shemitabasu.

Today, what the lives of four men reveal about masculinity in America.

For a while now, a certain narrative about men has dominated headlines.

Men are in crisis.

Boys are falling behind.

But a lot of that conversation happens at a distance.

In statistics, in culture war arguments, in podcast hot takes.

The real, complicated human stories, those tend to get left out.

Journalist Jordan Ritter-Kahn wanted to go deeper. So he spent five years with four very different men,

following them in their day-to-day lives, with their families and friends, talking with them

about what it actually means to be a man in

America right now. Jordan's new book, American Men, is about the gap between the men

we're told we should be and the men we actually are. Jordan argues that this gap is at the heart

of a lot of what's driving the conversation about men today. You, our listeners, told us how that gap is at the heart of a lot of what's driving the conversation about men today.

You, our listeners, told us how that gap has shown up in your own lives.

I was taught by relatives, peers, and my culture that boys should avoid anything that could be

considered girly.

Manliness to me meant I should handle my business alone.

I thought masculinity meant being unshakable. Don't cry, don't need help, don't look weak, keep moving.

Where we live, stay at home, or even work from home dads are not considered masculine.

I definitely felt a lot of pressure about living up to certain standards of manhood that I really never felt

...