Hey there, it's Sam Sanders.

The Pulitzer Prizes were announced this past week, honoring some of the best journalism and writing from the past year,

including work by several reporters we featured on this show.

One of this year's winners is journalist Brian Goldstone, for his book, There Is No Place for Us,

A deeply reported exploration of the lives of working homeless people in America,

and the U.S. policies that make stable housing so difficult to secure.

In-conversation host, Shemita Basu interviewed him when the book was released last spring,

so we wanted to bring that conversation back today.

Congrats to Brian on the award. I hope you enjoy listening.

This is In Conversation from Apple News. I'm Shmita Basu. Today, why so many working people are homeless in America.

A few years ago, Celeste Walker found herself in an impossible situation.

She was living in Atlanta with her three kids. She was working

a warehouse job but had recently been diagnosed with breast and ovarian cancer and was undergoing

treatment. On top of everything else, she had lost her housing and was desperate for help.

So she went to Gateway Center, a local organization that provides assistance to homeless families.

She got there before dawn, and there was already a line going around the building,

women, children, and men trying to get help.

That's journalist and anthropologist Brian Goldstone.

Brian says after hours of waiting, Celeste was finally seen by a caseworker, but...

During her interview with the caseworker, she was basically told that she wasn't homeless in the right way, that she didn't fit the definition of what is called literal homelessness, which is people on the street or in shelters.

Celeste had been living with her children in a squalid extended stay hotel.

And the caseworker told her that in order to access resources and support, she would

...