Welcome to Off Message. I'm Isaac Dover.

This is an interesting conversation we've been having about the value of work.

I think work does have some value and some dignity, but I don't think working 14 hours and not be able to pay your bills or working two jobs.

There's nothing inherently dignified about that. It's actually just stress-inducing.

I think back to my mom, my

and my grandmother, and just what $500 a month could have meant for her. And she didn't need

anyone to tell her how to spend $500 a month. She knew exactly where the needs were. She

knew exactly the best way they used that money and was working two or three jobs. So it wasn't

that she was lazy or shiftless.

Today's guest, Michael Tubbs, the mayor of Stockton,

California, population

37,000. Tubbs was

26 when he was elected in 2016.

His previous job,

city councilman. His job before that?

College student. An intern.

We are in a moment when, among other things that are going on, we're talking a lot about youth empowerment and involvement in American politics.

From the Big Guns March in Washington in March, where they didn't let anyone over 21 speak,

for the massive numbers of first-time candidates, millennials on track to make up more of the eligible voting

population this year than baby boomers for the first time. A lot of our guests the past few weeks

have been among the young leaders already in place. Pete Buttigieg, Ricardo Roseo, Matt Gates.

None of them is as young as Tubbs, and none of them made it happen as much on his own as Tubbs did.

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