Welcome to OffMessage. I'm Isaac Dover.

53% of people trust the media more than Trump to get the story right, which is interesting.

Like when you see the numbers, like the distrust in the media, but then versus Trump,

part of it to me is always like...

I'm not sure trust is what people want from Trump.

If that were the case, I think people were really in trouble.

I think they went from him his attitude.

And I think that they don't mind them being wrong on the facts.

It's that taking him seriously or taking him literally thing.

You know, if you read, you grew up the way I did with an Irish Catholic family,

you understand from your mom that it's not about Joe McCarthy being right on the facts.

It's about having the same resentment you have against the establishment.

Today's guest, Chris Matthews, host of Hardball on MSNBC, and the author of more and more

insightful books about politics than you'd expect from a TV host. And he actually writes them

himself. The latest, which came out last fall,

is about RFK, in a deeper look at him as a political player than most anywhere else. It's called

Bobby Kennedy, a raging spirit. But he's also a former operative, a former candidate himself,

a former newspaper columnist, and 25 years on the air now,

one of the pioneers of cable news as we've come to know it, as it shaped so much of our whole

politics, including, of course, who's in the White House, and how decisions are now made there

every day. You can see Matthews on TV every night, but here's why I wanted to have him on the

podcast this week. It was the

...