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Just search new here. Welcome to the HPR Idea Cast from Harvard Business Review.

I'm Adi Ignatius, editor-in-chief, and on the phone today I have Robert Gates,

former Secretary of Defense for both Presidents George W Bush and Barack Obama, and author of the new book Duty Memoirs of a Secretary of War.

Secretary Gates, thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you. My pleasure.

So you're somebody who has spent really years and years working in Washington at

several institutions and for at least a couple of presidents and I guess before

we talk about specifics I'd love to get your general take on the culture of Washington, what works, what doesn't work.

I think that first of all we need to be honest and admit that Washington politics have always been ugly

since the beginning of the republic.

At least we haven't had a former vice president and secretary of the treasury shooting

each other recently, has happened early on when

Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton.

But I think was differentiated the period of the last, particularly I'd say the last 20 years,

is that the polarization and the ugliness of the politics has actually begun to impede the ability to get the government's business done.

And I mean, we've had ugly politics during Watergate, during Vietnam, and so on just in sort of modern times and the impeachment of

...